Question for Tec

by Fester 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • Fester
    Fester

    Tammy, how do you feel about these verses?

    Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

    Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

    Mat 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

    I personally love my tangible existing family more than I could ever love a character in a book. Is that wrong? Moreover, in Luke, Jesus says that his disciples must "hate" (Greek word Miseo) their parents.

    Without trying to wrest these texts into something other than what they plainly say, can you explain this? Remember: He's not here to bring peace. What good then, is he?
  • tec
    tec

    One of those stories (John) is mostly a copy of a copy of Greek mythology re-written to fit the "Jesus" figure.

    Hi Fester. If you've read a bit of my posts, then you might have discovered somewhere along the way that I have researched these copycat theories, and don't find them credible. This includes Mithra comparisons :)

    Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    I think I answered this one on another thread of yours. Peace or Sword?

    Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. and Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

    Because of what those fathers/daughters/mothers would do. Holding to the hypocrisy and/or the lies of the Pharisees and teachers of the law - instead of the freedom and truth that Christ offered. I imagine some believing in Jesus as the Messiah, and others wanting Him dead, would have caused division between them.

    Mat 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

    Love me more than your father/mother/son/daughter. Why? Because He teaches the truth about love and about mercy and about faith. He IS the truth. And we can trust Him with our love, first and foremost - because what does he do with it? He turns around and tells us to love one another. To forgive. To be merciful.

    Not everyone has a mother/father/son/daughter who teaches and lives that. Doesn't mean not to love them or not to try and help them. Just to love Christ more - perhaps then you actually can help them.

    I personally love my tangible existing family more than I could ever love a character in a book. Is that wrong?

    No. But then, I think we differ in our opinion of whether Jesus is merely a character in a book.

    Moreover, in Luke, Jesus says that his disciples must "hate" (Greek word Miseo) their parents. Without trying to wrest these texts into something other than what they plainly say, can you explain this? . Since Jesus taught us to love even our enemies - we do have to consider why He would say hate here. Keeping in mind that the word 'miseo' also means to love less - which is a message that we already know Jesus taught, as seen in the passage that you gave above. . Also, in the same passage, Jesus says to hate even their own lives. Keep in mind the people and time that he is speaking. Those people were following the Pharisees and teachers of the law - the rules of men, rather than the commands of God; they were dead in their sins (spiritually), unloving, unmerciful, blind and hypocritical. Hate those - including what they had of those things in themselves. Then follow Him. . What good then, is he? . He is truth and life. He offers both to us. . Tammy

  • Fester
    Fester

    Hi Tammy,

    I have but one remaining question. You said we differ on whether Jesus is just a character in a book or not. You would say he's not just a book character, but a real, living breathing person still? Can you prove this for me, and make it easier for me to accept him? Can you get him on the horn and have him visit with us for a little while? True loving friends and brothers and sisters are REAL to me. I meet them. Love them. I can hold an actual conversation with them.

    You say the copycat theories are not credible? Have you really spent 5-6 years digging through all the Hellenistic archives in Europe and the Mediterranean to actually come to that conclusion? You're talking about disqualifying thousands of other texts that predate the bible by a number of centuries!

    Have you ever read Sergei Tokarev's History of Religion? Can you explain to me why the words "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood" are found on cave walls that date back to 400BC? Can you explain why a Jewish born Messiah would utter such cannibalistic words? Even if the words are "spiritual" they must have tangible evidence to back them. The Torah forbade blood consumption and human flesh consumption.

    Also, how does Jesus qualify as a picture of the OT prophecies? Did he have hooves on his feet? Was his throat properly slit? Offered up at the proper time (day of atonement not the Paschal meal)? By the right people?

    It's all very simple really if you study ancient Persian influence on the bible, it's plainly there.

  • tec
    tec

    I have but one remaining question...

    LOL. You have thirteen.

    You would say he's not just a book character, but a real, living breathing person still?

    Alive, yes. Walking around in flesh and blood - no.

    Can you prove this for me, and make it easier for me to accept him? Can you get him on the horn and have him visit with us for a little while?

    No - as you well know. So the question is mocking, yes? You're not actually interested in me proving something to you.

    You say the copycat theories are not credible?

    Nothing I have read has been credible in proving that Jesus is a copycat. That is what I am saying, yes.

    Have you really spent 5-6 years digging through all the Hellenistic archives in Europe and the Mediterranean to actually come to that conclusion?

    No. Have you?

    Can you explain to me why the words "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood" are found on cave walls that date back to 400BC?

    No. Can you show me a picture? And if you can, can you also tell me why it matters, since (see answer below)

    Can you explain why a Jewish born Messiah would utter such cannibalistic words?

    His words were symbolic. No one ever actually ate his flesh or drank his blood.

    Even if the words are "spiritual" they must have tangible evidence to back them.

    Isn't that a contradiction? (I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not sure what you mean, or why you think this.)

    Also, how does Jesus qualify as a picture of the OT prophecies? Did he have hooves on his feet? Was his throat properly slit? Offered up at the proper time (day of atonement not the Paschal meal)? By the right people?

    I don't know what you mean by any of this.

    Tammy

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