Disfellowshipping = Capital Punishment (death) under the Law

by blondie 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie

    The WTS has said that disfellowshipping offenses in the congregation equal the ones that resulted in execution in the nation of Israel.

    "Insight on the Scriptures" Vol. 1, Page 787 - Heading EXPELLING - Under the Mosaic Law"Expelling - Judicial Excommunication, or Disfellowshipping... analogous to the Powers of Capital Punishment (Death)...During Jesus' earthly Ministry the Synagogues served as Courts
    for trying Violators of Jewish (Mosaic) Law. The Sanhedrin was the Highest Court.
    Under Roman Rule...when the Sanhedrin judged someone Deserving of Death, they could
    Not always Administer the Death Penalty, because of Restrictions by the Romans.
    The Jewish SYNAGOGUES had a System of Excommunication, Disfellowshipping.
    One who was cast out as Wicked, Cut Off entirely, would be Considered Worthy of Death,
    though the Jews might not have the Authority to EXECUTE (KILL) such a One.
    Nevertheless, the Form of Cutting Off (Execution/Death) they did employ (Disfellowshipping)
    was a very Powerful Weapon in the Jewish Community."

    But fornication was not a capital offense in the Jewish nation.

    *** it-1 p. 863 Fornication ***Under the Mosaic Law, a man committing fornication with an unengaged girl was required to marry the girl and to pay her father the purchase price for brides (50 silver shekels; $110), and he could not divorce her all his days. Even if her father refused to give him the girl in marriage, the man had to pay the purchase price to the father. (Ex 22:16, 17; De 22:28, 29) However, if the girl was engaged, the man was to be stoned to death. If the girl screamed when she was attacked, she was not to be punished, but if the engaged girl failed to scream (thereby indicating consent), she was also put to death.—De 22:23-27.

  • The Finger
    The Finger

    Yes I always thought this. Under the mosaic law surely King David should have been executed?

  • Pistoff

    Re-reading the Law about rape and adultery makes pretty clear that adultery/fornication was all about property rights; the virgin's value was diminished after rape.

  • minimus

    If they killed everyone having sex with someone other than their spouse, the Nation of Israel would never have come into existence.

  • alice.in.wonderland

    it-1 p. 787 Expelling

    Under the Mosaic Law. For serious or deliberate violations of God’s law given through Moses a person could be cut off, that is, put to death. (Le 7:27; Nu 15:30, 31) Apostasy, idolatry, adultery, eating blood, and murder were among the offenses carrying this penalty.—De 13:12-18; Le 20:10; 17:14; Nu 35:31.

    This is if a person was unrepentant.

    it-1 p. 590 David

    Jehovah was watching, however, and uncovered the whole reprehensible matter. If Jehovah had permitted the case involving David and Bath-sheba to be handled by human judges under the Mosaic Law, both of the wrongdoers would have been put to death, and of course, the unborn offspring of their adultery would have died with the mother. (De 5:18; 22:22) Jehovah dealt with the case himself and showed mercy to David because of the Kingdom covenant (2Sa 7:11-16), no doubt because David himself had shown mercy (1Sa 24:4-7; compare Jas 2:13) and because of repentance that God observed on the part of the wrongdoers.

    When the Mosaic law covenant was replaced, capital punishment was not a part of the Christian congregations.

    it-1 p. 524 Covenant

    New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) On the 50th day from his resurrection and 10 days after he had ascended to his Father, he poured out the holy spirit, which he had received from Jehovah, on his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.—Ac 2:1-4, 17, 33; 2Co 3:6, 8, 9; Heb 2:3, 4.

    It was apostate Christian churches that burned people at the stake if they happened to disagree with the Pope or his/her Majesty.

    Elizabeth (1998) - Part 1
  • AGuest
    Under the mosaic law surely King David should have been executed?

    No, dear Finger... and may you have peace!

    Israel, for the most part... missed the point of the Law... as do most of those who call themselves "christians" (but really are not): mercy and forgiveness... which is cultivated by LOVE.

    It is in this way that Christ, however, FULFILLED the law. For example, when a woman caught in the act of adultery was brought to him, her accusers supposedly quoted "Moses" and said that "under the Law" she was to be stoned. Christ, however, neither judged nor condemned her but forgave and "released" her, sending her on her way. Because rather than being worried as to whether SHE had transgressed the Law... HE... was only concerned with SURPASSING the Law... which he did by means of HIS love for her: love... "COVERS a multitude of transgression" and "there is NO law against love."

    Because love, dear one, IS the law's fulfillment - not stoning someone for transgressing it.

    The Law was not given to Israel so that they could point the finger at others and go, "OOoooh, you BROKE the Law! Now, you gotta pay!" It was given to them so that each one could look at THEMSELVES... and thereby know how NOT to transgress against a brother. It was a MIRROR that one was to "peer into" to see ONESELF... not a window so as to look out and see others.

    Unfortunately, Israel, as a nation, never got that. As a nation, they still don't get it today. Some did and do, however, because they have their gaze upon and so look at CHRIST... who is the image of God... who is love. See Christ... see God. See God... see... Love.

    The Most Holy One of Israel demonstrated this love when He forgave David. Christ showed it when he asked His Father to forgive those who had him put to death. Mercy... "triumphs"... over judgment and that was something Israel was SUPPOSED to learn, if not know already (i.e., their forefather Abraham new that Law, which is why he pleaded for Sodom and Gomorrah). They repeatedly rejected it, however, and so my Lord was sent to SHOW them how to fulfill it. Unfortunately, most of them rejected him, too.

    But... the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... IS MERCIFUL... and as a result, through His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... ALL of Israel will still be saved. They just won't be the "holy nation" they could have been. Instead, only 144,000 of them will have favor, along with a great crowd from among EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people.

    I hope this helps and I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,


  • The Finger
    The Finger


    Thanks for the scriptures, in lev 20:10 there doesn't seem alot of scope for repentance.

    In the New System just supposing I made it, say after 20 years, I'm abit tired of the way things are run by the Society, I decide no, it's not for me. I think I will do things differently. This is in the reign of Christ. Do you think I will be allowed to live?

  • freydo

    So under the NC, how should pedophiles be dealt with? And how would it have been dealt with under Mosaic Law?

    And what about homosexuality?

  • The Finger
    The Finger


    Yes thank you.

  • AGuest
    So under the NC, how should pedophiles be dealt with? And how would it have been dealt with under Mosaic Law?

    May I assume you're addressing me, dear Freydo (may you have peace!)? If so, my response would be that under the Mosaic Law (OC/OT) such a "crime" would have been left to the family (meaning, primarily the father, uncle, or oldest son). The family... and only the family... could decide how to "deal" with such a matter. And if THEY chose to avenge the crime, no one could judge them for doing so (the Law allowed them the freedom to avenge without reproach in such a case). Likewise, if they chose to forgive the crime... no one could judge them for doing so (the Law was fulfilled in such forgiveness, because it is a manifestation of LOVE... and there is no law against love. Love... IS the Law's "fulfillment").

    [Personally, I think that is how crimes [against the person] should be dealt with today: by the family. Because along with the actual victim, they, too, are victims. Unfortunately, Israel demanded a king from among themselves and so that right was taken away. Likewise, today, the western world is founded upon that same kind of heirarchy (i.e., the government seeing to it that the laws (which are somewhat - okay, loosely - based on the laws stated in the Bible) are carried out. And so families, while granted to speak to the perpetrator and/or as to what they want to have done... have little or no influence on the actual outcome, either way.]

    And what about homosexuality?

    Homosexuality is not listed among the infamous "[Ten] Commandments," dear one. Rather, it is mentioned in the "Second Law" (Deuteronomy) after the status of a menstruating woman. Both conditions were considered "unclean" (with the latter also being described as "something detestable" - but then, eating certain animals was, at that time, also "something detestable").

    My Lord, however, who is Mediator OF the N[ew] C[ovenant] made no mention of it, at least as far as HIS teachings/sayings as recorded show. And I follow him, not Paul (Paul did not give his life for me, nor can his blood cleanse me or save me).

    As for menstruating women, it is recorded that rather than brush her off as unclean, my Lord actually felt compassion for a woman whose "flow of blood" had burdened her for more than 12 years. Rather than cringe away when she touched his clothing (as the Jews/Israel were wont to do, in a showy, outward display of "righteousness")... he felt PITY for her and took HER "uncleanliness" into HIS body (that is why he felt "power go out of him." She received power from him, which power healed her; in exchange, he received HER "sin" (i.e., the "corruption" that was IN her flesh)... which he took with him to the grave. Isaiah 53:3, 4). And he did it simply because... he WANTED to. He wanted to ease HER pain, so much so that he was willing to take it on himself.

    But I moved past what was written because my spirit did not "bear witness" with the truth of Paul's exhortation on the matter. It did not make sense, in light of what I was learning about my Lord as I was coming to know him even better. So... I asked. And what I received from his is what I should have expected to receive: he said to me, "Are you without sin, child? If so, then cast your stone. If not, then how can you even see to take a stone up, let alone cast it?" He was reminding me of his teaching about the "rafter" in one's eye.

    But he did not stop there (which is what I LOVE about him - when he drives a point, he drives it home!). He reminded me that while homosexuality is NOT listed among the "Ten," adultery is. And that when a woman whose caught in the act of adultery (not alleged, not rumored, but actually caught) was brought to him, he being one who WAS without sin... what did HE do? "Did I condemn her, child?" and when I replied that he did not, he asked me to recount for him what he DID do. And I responded that he forgave... and released her. He then asked me whether if he, the one WITHOUT sin, did not judge a woman who was brought before him after being caught in the very act... who are others... who HAVE sinned... to judge those like her, let alone someone who commits a sin which is NOT of the "Ten"?

    Can one who has a tatoo judge one who covets? Can one who has pierced his/her skin judge one makes an image and bows before it? Sin... is sin, dear Freydo. There is no "ranking" of sin with the Most Holy One of Israel. You transgress one Law... you transgress them all. BUT... love... covers a MULTITUDE of transgressions!!

    So, rather than concerning myself with someone else's "transgression" of the Law... regardless of what that transgression may be... my only concern is that I... keep an eye on myself so as not to transgress it myself... while doing all that I can to SURPASS the Law... by means of MY love for that one. And leave that one to answer for him or her self.

    THAT... is the TRUE "fulfillment" of the NC on MY part, dear one... which truth I have learned from my Lord.

    And if, for some reason, I DO transgress the Law myself... then, I have a Helper from God: Christ, the Comforter and Holy Spirit. As dear John wrote:

    "My little children, I am writing YOU these things that YOU may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a Helper* with the Father, [Jesus] Christ, a righteous one. And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s." 1 John 2:1, 2


    What if someone asks me is it "okay" to commit adultery or engage in homosexuality? What am I to respond? I asked my Lord this and he said the answer depends... on what the person really wants to know. If they want the truth, I must share with them the truth: it is a transgression against the Law... BUT, there is a Helper in Christ... NOT to "remove" the desire (we will, some of us, continue doing things we don't want to do until our last breath!)... but to COVER our transgression... with his blood. And I would explain how that comes about.

    If they really DON'T want to know but only want justification for the transgression... or validation of their position... I would simply say, "Who appointed me judge over you? To your own master(s) you will stand or fall." My love for such one, however, would NOT fail. It cannot. Because then, I would be transgressing the NEW Law... of love... and as a result my transgressions under the OLD Law... whatever they were and whenever they occurred... would no longer have a "covering."

    I hope this answers your questions and, again, I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,


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