QUESTION: will the WTS ever fall? if so, how?

by badwillie 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  badwillie

  Maybe some of you who have been out for many years can answer this.
  Do you think that the flow of people leaving the Borg has been increasing? And do you think that we will ever live to see their complete downfall? If you do think this is a likely scenario, how do you see it unfolding?
  
  My feeling is that if Communism and the Berlin Wall crumbled then so can the WTS.
  I can see 2 main reasons to hope this may happen:
  1) the Internet
  2) the very old age of the GB (I mean someone there had to have Alzheimer’s to not see the problems the UN thing would create)

  Please, your comments on this either way.
• 

  nytelecom1

  no .

  the very old age of the GB

  Are you anits still selling this?? You need to get your
  eyes out of Crisis of Conscience and notice that its been
  over 20 years....u still think Fred Franz is prez dont you
• 

  Mister Biggs

  I think the flow of people leaving have been increasing only because I know of 9 people who have left within the past couple of years. Prior to that, I only recall one person leaving in a span of about 16 years.
  The internet is a very powerful tool.
  People who are still active Dubs, who still believe in the Organization, who still visit this "apostate" site, are, by their actions, showing that they truly do not have faith in this Organization. For if they did, they would a) Show their real name, b) let their elder's know that they visit this site, and/or c) wouldn't even THINK about visiting a site such as this.

  So many stupid people, so few comets! :o)
• 

  RunningMan

  Lack of conversions is lowering numbers. The youth are not staying, and the internet is taking its toll. Shrinking numbers and aging demographics will hurt them more than any scandal.

  The fall of an empire begins at the edges. The Roman Empire remained strong at its core for many years. But once the provinces started to fall, the end was beginning.

  Watch what is happening to the small town congregations in rural areas, the ones that are far (spiritually) from the core. In my area, a rural congregation is disbanded almost every year. The ones that are left are getting older. Soon, there will be little or no JW representation in rural areas. Then, no in-migration will fuel city growth.

  The organization is stagnating and facing serious problems. But, they are still fairly powerful. If they reform quickly and decisively, they can fix themselves. However, their geriatric leadership is too ingrown and slow to do it.
• 

  Mulan

  When you look at the numbers, it is clear that all areas are decreasing all over the world. But I don't think it will make the organization fall. Ultimately, when all the old timers have died off, and the younger men take over, it will become a mainstream religion, much like the Seventh Day Adventists and the Mormons, which have a degree of respectibility to them.

  It makes me cringe now, to realize how people laugh at the JW's, and I used to be one. They really are an object of ridicule, and jokes.

  Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
  "No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
• 

  roybatty

  This is something that I have thought about a LOT. Some days I feel that the WT’s numbers will level off and they will continue to be around long after you and I have left this earth. Other days I feel that the WT will crumble. As the “truth” about them is revealed by such powerful means as the Internet, negative media reports and more failed predictions, people will leave. However, the great “unknown” is what will the WT do to stop the bleeding? If they continue to do what they have always done (circle the wagons, “us” against “them”) their numbers will continue to drop, even faster then before. But if the WT becomes more mainstream, as I predict they will, they will just become another Protestant religion and always have a certain number of people joining there ranks.
  I feel that the issues that make JWs so bizarre and unorthodox (b-days, holidays, df’ing, blood) will de-emphasized and be viewed as matters of personal conscience. They’ll be forced to do this as more and more JWs become disgusted with the hypocrisy of the GB and demand change. With the numbers of JWs having access to the Internet it’s going to bring this issues to the fore front.
  But then again, trying to predict what the WT will do to increase their numbers (or stop the decreases) is like to predict which direction a tornado will go.
• 

  Yadirf

  Badwillie

  Although apostates prefer not to believe it of course (because, though having eyes, they can’t see), the WTS has in fact been the restoration of true worship. Those directing the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses are indeed the "holy ones" spoken of in the 7th chapter of Daniel. According to Daniel’s prophecy such ones will eventually undergo an attack by the powerful final horn which stems from the 4th beast mentioned there. Presently this "horn" has been misinterpreted as being one and the same as the 7th head/king of the beast of Revelation 13, which has also been misinterpreted as representing the United States and Great Britain. More correctly though, this “final” horn equates with the final king of Revelation, namely the 8th king pictured in chapter 17; and represents an upcoming World Government. But, as the 7th chapter of Daniel attests to, not even this future World Government, as undoubtedly powerful as it will be, succeeds in destroying the "holy ones", aka the WTS.

  I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself. -- Daniel 7:21, 22.

  By what means will this future World Government, this final “horn” of Daniel’s prophecy, make “war” upon the WTS? While Daniel’s own prophecy doesn’t go into this much detail, John’s account does though … at Revelation 13:7, 16, 17; and 17:14 (to make war upon the holy ones is to war with Jesus himself). There, it is seen that a scheme is concocted which places the “holy ones” in particular on the spot. Yes, unless such ones prove themselves willing to acknowledge such World Government as THE supreme authority over mankind, even above God’s own authority, they will be refused the necessities of life. But, even as Jehovah’s Witnesses have always been known for doing, they will NOT bow to such a demand, and because of their integrity Jehovah will deliver them from out of the hands of the “final” horn -- an upcoming World Government.

  I believe the Bible answers your question, Badwillie, but of course you haven’t the “eyes to see” that it does. You poor, pitiful soul!

  Yadirf

  Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
• 

  DIM

  I think it is possible because there are so many glaring problems within the doctrines taught and cover ups (the two versions of the truth book, the two versions of the Live Forever book, the book that reads like an acid trip, The Divine Plan of the Ages...) that people are getting sick of it. My wife and I are basically giving up our families (except for my mother in law who doesn't really believe it but goes w/ the flow) to get out. And we are only 24 and 22. I think it is possible that it will fall within the next 10 to 20 years. Then again, maybe not.

  i'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight-short-sighted-narrow minded hypocritics. all i want is the truth just gimme some truth - John Lennon
• 

  Scully

  The only way the WTS will ever fold up is when their flow of cash dries up.

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person
  to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63

  A religion that teaches lies cannot be true. -WT 12/1/91
• 

  Mindchild

  Hi Bad Willie,

  Religions are normally quite resilient to total disintegration. There are too many built in fail-safe systems they can fall back on and blame for scandals can easily be put off as “human imperfection”, a “test” or blame it on the apostates. The screw-ups with prophetic disconfirmations is a bit more troublesome but the WTS has shed these off like water on a duck. We have seen gross scandals in the past that ranged from economic fraud on a large scale (i.e. India) to homosexual scandals at Bethel. It is all the water under the bridge now…the great transnational corporation keeps plugging along.

  The growth of Jehovah’s Witnesses is cyclic. They have been in a downward cycle for several years but are now heading up the cycle (roughly the cycle matches the sunspot cycle as per some other religions) but will go down in the opposite direction in due time.

  Things that will have a more dramatic effect on their growth in my personal opinion won’t be the standard set of problems they have faced in the past, but new problems. Problems they are ill equipped to handle. The Internet is one example of this but even greater future problems await them. One example of the new problems is the increasing density of information. This doesn’t sound much like a problem but consider this…the WTS is its own worst enemy. Their own publications can stumble someone more than any scandal can, but most people are not aware of all this and it takes a skilled person now to go and find all the sources, even with the Internet. In some years, radical new changes in information technology, including the ability to compress entire encyclopedic volumes of information in a text format similar to this: 4983f8434h38d04 (using new Godelian prime factorization mathematics) will enable any Watchtower “opposer” to instantly transfer everything the WTS has ever printed to anyone, and have it indexed so the interested person can immediately find any reference to the WTS hall of shame.

  What will be even more damning for them will be “KNOWBOTS” which are now only in their early evolutionary stages, but these will be the next “Killer Application” that will shake the computer world and they are artificial intelligence agents that we can speak to plainly by voice and they will be able to quickly answer nearly any question we care to ask them. Indeed they will eventually become indispensable to the First World because most of us won’t be able to understand the rapid technological changes happening all around us. They will be our friends who are the learned college professor and when we ask them about the validity of Jehovah’s Witnesses having the truth…we are going to hear a lot of laughing.

  Kind Regards,

  Skipper