You may not have read the Apologist version of 607 b.c.e.

by Terry 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Terry

  Jerusalem 607 BCE Vindicated

  A postates and other opposers argue that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE, but in 587 BCE, and provide what they claim is archaeological evidence to support this. If 607 BCE is wrong, then the “seven times” prophecy ending in 1914 CE would be wrong also.

  
  The Bible says Jerusalem was devastated for seventy years, starting in 607 BCE.

  However, as Jehovah's Witnesses, we only go by what the Bible says. Yet they claim that the Bible supports 587 BCE as the correct date too! The two most prominent apostates arguing this, Ray Franz and Karl Jonsson, sycophantically say words to this effect: “oh, if only it was a matter of believing the Bible, then we would believe in 607 too!” Oh, really?

  Unsurprisingly, they do not mention that the 587 BCE date is a chronological disaster — biblically speaking. It makes several prophecies fail, breaks up chronological narratives, makes some passages absurd, and makes part of the scriptures contradict other parts. It truly is an absolute mess and a disgraceful misuse of the Bible.

  Instead of dealing with these enormous critical problems, 587 promoters either ignore them, keep them secret, or pretend they don’t exist! Franz and Jonsson certainly make no mention of them to their readers. They instead concentrate on fallible secular evidence. While they do mention a few chosen bible verses, they keep quiet about whole passages, prophecies, and narratives that their 587 date contradicts. Oh, and by the way, many of the different “the Bible supports 587 too” theories contradict each other.

  This website outlines plainly the scriptural chaos caused by 587 BCE which men like Franz and Jonsson don’t like to talk about. We, the authors, once believed in 587, but after a careful examination of the scriptural evidence, can see that 587 is wholly wrong. “Oh, if only it was a matter of believing the Bible, then we would believe in 607 too” is what they, in so many words, said. Well, the Bible overwhelmingly rubbishes 587 and makes it abundantly clear that 607 is the only possible date.

  Please prayerfully examine the chapters below, and the appendix which covers more complex arguments. Please begin with chapter one, Why is 607 BCE Important?

  — The Authors

  P.S. We did not set out to examine the secular evidence, as the Bible is supreme to anything else. However, we were bemused to see that the little bit of secular evidence we did examine actually supports 607! We also found serious problems with reliability of the secular evidence. See: Appendix B: Secular records “correcting” the Bible, Appendix Q: The BM21946 Tablet and how it supports 607 rather than secular chronology, and Appendix R: Secular chronologist’s blatant disregard for the Bible.

  Contents

  Introduction: Why is 607 BCE Important?
  Why is this date so important to Jehovah's Witnesses, why is the favourite point-of-attack for apostates, and what is the fuss about the 587 BCE date? Read this chapter...

  1: The Real Issue: 70 Years
  Why do we disagree with secular historians and reject their 587 date? When did the 70 years of desolation really begin? Read a summary of the different theories. Read this chapter...

  2: Seventy years of what?
  Promoters of 587 redefine the 70-year desolation to mean something figurative, such as servitude for seventy years. Read this chapter...

  3: Is Jerusalem Included in the 70 Years of Desolation?
  Jerusalem was indeed the primary part of the 70-year desolation, the scriptures deny anything else. Read this chapter...

  4: Ruins, Desolation, Waste, a Wasteland
  The Hebrew words used support the idea of a full 70-year desolation of Jerusalem with the city lying in ruins. Read this chapter...

  5: Servitude to the King of Babylon for 70 Years?
  What is the full meaning of the nations serving the King of Babylon for a full seventy years? Does it disprove 607, or is more involved? Read this chapter...

  6: Did the 70 Years Begin in Neb’s 1st Year?
  Several Bible passages contradict the apostate re-interpretation that the 70-year period began in Neb’s first year. Here they are to consider. Read this chapter...

  7: Did the 70 years Begin with Assyria’s Defeat?
  Another interpretation is that the 70 years began when Babylon took Assyria's status as the world power. It's just a shame the scriptures don't agree. Read this chapter...

  8: Does 607 make Daniel Unrealistically Old?
  The truth is that the accounts in Daniel's book harmonizes perfectly with 607 — while the 587 date causes a chronological mess in the narrative. Read this chapter...

  9: The 70 Years for Tyre
  Prophecy stated Tyre would be forgotten for 70 years before providing materials for the temple. Only the 607 date allows for this — a problem for 587 promoters. Read this chapter...

  10: Egypt’s 40-Year Desolation
  Only the 607 date allows for the full 40-years of Egypt's desolation by Nebuchadnezzar. Whereas the 587 date makes it impossible. Read this chapter...

  11: Zechariah: Did the 70 Years Continue After 537?
  Some claim the desolation continued after the repatriation of the Jews in their homeland. It's a shame the scriptures don't agree with this. Read this chapter...

  12: What About 519 BCE?
  Some are aware of the problems with reinterpretting 70 years as 50, they claim the date of Jewish repatriation is wrong, and is really 519 BCE. Read this chapter...

  Conclusion: 607 BCE – The Only Year That Works
  The 587 date is a poor explanation which is full of holes, while 607 harmonizes with the whole Bible like no other date. Read this chapter...

  
  

  Appendix

  • The Seven Times prophecy
  • Secular records “correcting” the Bible [secular evidence]
  • Why does the NWT use “devastations” and not “ruins” at Dan 9:2?
  • Josephus’ account of the exiles from Jerusalem
  • Excuses for only 68 years
  • Jeremiah 25:18 - Just as at this day
  • Attempts at explaining-away the Tyre and Egypt problems
  • Jeremiah 52:20 - where did the exiles come from?
  • Ezekiel 33:24, 27 - these devastated places?
  • Ezekiel 33:24, 27 - ten years prior?
  • Jeremiah 29:10 - eighty years at Babylon?
  • Ezekiel 28:3 - Why was Daniel already famous?
  • Daniel’s gross inconsistency?
  • An example of counting a vassal kingship
  • Why does the chief of the Bodyguard have two names?
  • How the BM21946 tablet supports 607, not 587 [secular evidence]
  • Secular chronologist’s blatant disregard for the Bible [secular evidence]
  • Timeline of all events in 607 chronology

  Charts

  • The 70 year desolations of Jerusalem, 607 based chronology
  • The 70-year “servitude” of Jerusalem, secular chronology
  • The 70 years of “figurative desolation” in secular chronology
  • Egypt’s 40-year desolation in the 607-based chronology
  • Egypt’s 40-year desolation in the 587-based secular chronology
  • One 587 proponent’s “explanation” of the Egypt problem
  • Tyre’s 70 years in the 607-based chronology
  • Tyre’s 70 years in 587-based secular chronology
  • The 70 years of servitude
  • The Judean Kings in 607-based chronology
  • The perfect fit of Bible chronology
  • Daniel’s three full years of training
  • Attempt to reduce Daniel’s three years to less than two

  

  Printer-friendly version

  • Download: Jerusalem 607 BCE – A4 paper size (PDF, 4Mb)

  Right-click to download and save the file to your desktop. The file is a PDF. To view and print it, you need software installed which is capable of viewing PDF files, such as the free Adobe Acrobat Reader.

  We also have available PDF versions of the website Setting the Record Straight, which is also about 607 BCE. We have it in US Letter format and standard A4 .

  Links

  • 587 or 607? The Bible’s View — The primary source for this minisite.
  • Gentile Times Reconsidered Again, This Time Using the Bible — Complete article appears in Appendix A
  • Setting the Record Straight — Also sourced for this website.
  • Rolf Furuli — Professor at University of Oslo who supports 607
  • Jehovah’s Witnesses United — apologetics, etc.
  • The Watchtower Society as a UN NGO — demolishing the conspiracy theory
  • JW Child Abuse Policy – exposing the myths

  © Copyright 2006-2009 All rights reserved.
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  PSacramento

  Since the bible mentions NO DATES, where do these authors get their dates?

  Since the bible mentions NO DATE for the return of the Israelites to Isreal, where do the authors get 537 BCE ??
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  Quentin

  We did not set out to examine the secular evidence, as the Bible is supreme to anything else.........

  No need for discussion then, Bible says it all. YAWN, sad realy.
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  PSacramento

  Yeah, they ONLY used the bible and where the bible had no dates ( everywhere) they choose the ones that SECULAR evidence provided and used those dates they whay THEY wanted to, to arrive at the numbers THEY WANTED and disregarded the rest or contridictory evidence to what THEY were propossing.

  Of course all this is irrelevant because the whole premis starts off faulty right here:

  If 607 BCE is wrong, then the “seven times” prophecy ending in 1914 CE would be wrong also.

  There is NO EVIDENCE to indicate that the seven times prohecy has ANYTHING to do with 1914 or 607 or any other date, NONE.
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  isaacaustin

  Has Pseudoscholar come to realize that 607 is a wrong date?? LOL Or did he just fall on his head and is out of commission??
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  notverylikely

  I saw that website about 6 months ago. It was so absurd I thought it was satire. It's for reals?
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  yourmomma

  i love how people just make shit up.

  "The Bible says Jerusalem was devastated for seventy years, starting in 607 BCE."

  LOLOLOL, no it doesnt.

  Ok, my turn:

  "the bible says im the greatest person ever and you should all send me money"

  there, now i have started a jw apologists website.

  hey, lets take this further:

  "the bible says I am an anointed brother of christ who is spirit directed but not inspired, do everything i say"

  there, now i have started a religion.

  sign up today or perish.
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  garyneal

  Back when I was trying to sort out the 607 vs 587 dates a few months ago, I remember reading this website or at least parts of it.

  Carl Olof Johnson's book is a must read for this kind of information.
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  garyneal

  Let's be clear, that one of the dates that this site insists is the proof that 607 must work is 537. This is the one I am thinking of:

  70 years of the nations servitude to Nebuchadnezzar

  Now if Babylon was destroyed in 539, as the WT and secular evidence agrees with, how can any nation still be under servitude after 539 B.C.E.? The fact of the matter is that the 70 years ends there.

  Jeremiah 25:11-12 (New International Version)

  11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

  12 "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the LORD, "and will make it desolate forever.
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  Black Sheep

  "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the LORD, "and will make it desolate forever.

  Under the Parthian, and later, Sassanid Persians, Babylon remained a province of the Persian Empire for nine centuries, until about 650 AD. It continued to have its own culture and people, who spoke varieties of Aramaic, and who continued to refer to their homeland as Babylon. Some examples of their cultural products are often found in the Babylonian Talmud, the Mandaean religion, and the religion of the prophet Mani. Christianity came to Mesopotamia in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, and Babylon was the seat of a Bishop of the Church of the East. Wikipedia

  Old Jovie was draggin the chain back then too

  Cheers

  Chris