by garyneal 17 Replies latest members private
-if her elders ever find out about your wife participating in your daughter's birthday, she would be disfellowshipped.
Somebody, quick, send some birthday party pictures to the elders at her KH- getting df'd would be doing her a favor. Once a JW experiences the tough-love of the KH that kinda takes the fizz away from the champagne.
greenie:
For me, I think my wife was okay with it because of my headship (which she can hide behind if needed) and the fact that she actually still enjoys celebrating the holidays and birthdays (even though she is trying to convince herself that they are bad).
What about your JW? Did he ever celebrate holidays and birthdays before? I guess since he is the man (and considered by the WTS the head) the onus on him is to be more 'spiritual' (read: not allow these activities in his home).
If he's open to 'loopholes' then maybe you can have the party for him and frame it as something else. Let him exit the room while the cake is being lit and the happy birthday song is being sung and let him return afterward.
I mean, after all. Giving gifts is not bad, right? What about if you did it on a day that was close but not the baby's birthday? Don't the witnesses 'sanctify' and 'unsanctify' the unleavened bread at the memorial? When the candle it lit and on the cake, the JW shalt not touch. When it is removed, safe for said witness to eat.
I guess it really depends on his concious. I always use that with my wife by saying, "Whatever you do, I do not want to violate your concious." I just be loving about it and respect her position while at the same time disagreeing with it.
The people on the board here may have some stories concerning how active witnesses handled celebrating the 'un-birthdays.'
hmmmm, moshe, perhaps on second thought I should retract my warning to the JW lurker who may rat her out. LOL
You all should know that she has birthday party pictures of her niece on her facebook page. Now if someone reports that, well, nothing I can do but help her pick up the pieces.
Garyneal - You are doing a fantastic job! I love reading your updates. The things your wife is doubting are the same things that I doubted, and subsequently had be retracting my decision to join.
There is a thread around here 'COMMENTS WELCOME...", with an awesome thing on new light. If you haven't checked it out, you should. I already know you won't be pushy if you decide to present it.
Tammy
Chuckie Cheese sells Pizza to support his Cocaine Habit..
.................... ...OUTLAW
Garyneal - That's great your wife came to the party and your daughter had a blast.
Like Tec, the things your wife is doubting are the same things that brought me here. I can't imagine 99.9% of the population being killed. I read a thread on here that graphically described what Armaggedon could be like (neighbourhood children screaming, etc), and it hit home. I don't want any part of that.
My wife then laments and admits that she believes that events that have pagan origins should be viewed in accords to how they are celebrated today. WHOA!
Interestingly enough, there are WT articles that back that thought up. I don't have resources handy.
Here's a topic I started 3 years ago with a scan of an article talking about celebrating things with a 'pagan' origin. Unbelievably stupid:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/126781/1/QUESTIONS-FROM-READERS-CHECK-THIS-OUT
And here is a couple of articles on the pinata and it's evil pagan origins:
*** g71 6/22 pp. 23-24 The Piñata and Its Use ***
The origin of piñatas is not definitely known. But it is believed that the famous Venetian traveler Marco Polo brought them from the Orient to his native city in Italy. Later, in Spain, their use became a part of religious celebrations. Following the Spanish conquest in the western hemisphere they were introduced in Mexico. The materials used to make piñatas are a clay pot, crepe paper, a little glue and cardboard to give form to the figure.
Catholic teachers employed piñatas in giving the Indian natives religious instruction. They were used, for instance, in connection with Lent, which is observed from Ash Wednesday until Easter Sunday. Even today they are used in some places. On the day before Easter a piñata figure of Judas Iscariot is broken, scattering candies that children scamper to pick up. Piñatas also came to be used in connection with Christmas. A modern writer notes: "Indians were very fond of theatrical representations in the development of rituals. The friars started to put on theatrical representations in connection with the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ." Breaking the piñata came to be the final part of such a theatrical representation.
It was around the year 1587 C.E. that an Augustinian friar by the name of Diego de Doria received authorization from the Pope to hold Masses during nine days before Christmas. The tradition was taught to the natives that before the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary searched for nine days to find lodging. The Bible, however, does not say this. It is just a man-made tradition.......
The Posada was the celebration introduced to teach this tradition. It enacted the supposed nine-day search of Mary and Joseph. A young man and young woman were chosen to represent Joseph and Mary. It became the custom to form a group that would sing and pray as they went around pretending to look for lodging. People would gather in church for this theatrical representation.
Later, the celebration was also carried on in the homes of the people, who organized their own Posada. With the passing of time, clay, plaster of Paris and wooden figures of Joseph and Mary were substituted for human representations of them. It became the custom for two children to lead the procession carrying the figures of Joseph and Mary.
Families in Mexico look forward to the Posada on each of the nine nights before Christmas day. Children leading the procession go from room to room, being refused admittance until they come to the room where a nacimiento or nativity scene has been constructed with a miniature well-adorned stable. Here they are admitted and they place the figures of Joseph and Mary in the stable. It is not until the last night of the Posada that a figure representing the babe Jesus is placed there.
The celebration comes to its end with the breaking of the piñata. These piñatas may have many different forms-ships, clowns, devils, three-pointed stars, rabbits, radishes, watermelons, and so forth. Nowadays the host may invite everyone into his courtyard. There blindfolded persons take turns in trying to strike the piñata, which may be suspended by a cord from the porch roof or a branch of a tree.
Catholic teachers have placed great significance on the use of the piñata in this religious celebration. They have taught that the piñata represents the Devil or a bad spirit. The fact that the person who tries to break the piñata has his eyes covered indicates that he should have blind faith that will overcome the Devil. The articles that are put in the piñata represent the temptations that man has during his life. And breaking the piñata means that he has gained eternal life.
Modern Trend
Nowadays the Posada in Mexico features disorder, drunkenness and criminal activity. The celebrations are used as an excuse for wild and immoral living. Persons frequently are killed, and others are robbed and injured. Police are kept extra busy during these celebrations. One is reminded by the Posada of the early mid-December Roman festival of the Saturnalia. The fact is that encyclopedias say that this pagan festival provided the model for many merrymaking customs of Christmas, of which Posada and the use of the piñata are closely linked.
Today, however, many give little thought to the religious aspects of Posada and the breaking of the piñata. All some businessmen know about it is that selling piñatas is profitable. They may sell for as much as sixteen dollars or so apiece, and during Posada celebrations their cost goes up. Piñatas today are also used extensively for entertainment at social occasions, such as children's parties and birthday celebrations.
Yet in 2003, they got noo and improved light on the matter. I guess maybe Jehovah likes pinatas:
*** g03 9/22 pp. 23-24 The Piñata-An Ancient Tradition ***
We found that for many people in Mexico, the piñata has lost its religious significance and is considered by most to be just harmless fun. In fact, piñatas are used in Mexico on many festive occasions, not just for the posadas or for birthdays. And piñatas can be purchased in many forms other than the traditional star shape. They are sometimes made to resemble animals, flowers, clowns.
When considering whether to include a piñata at a social gathering, Christians should be sensitive to the consciences of others. (1 Corinthians 10:31-33) A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues. The Bible says: "Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person."-1 Corinthians 10:24.
But even though the use of the piñata is quite popular in some places, there are those who have serious misgivings about the false religious practices connected with it.
Wow, you're handling this well, Gary! Keep being the stable influence for your daughter and wife. Hopefully with a contrast between unconditional love from you compared to the what-have-you-done-for-us expectations of the organization, she will see who really wears the white hats.
I hope the surprise party goes well this week. Let us know how it all turns out.
