Question for ALL ex JW's or those who don't believe everything - (the answers here may help you and your answers may help others)

by EndofMysteries 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Rydor
    Rydor

    Hey EndofMysteries,
    I actually registered an account just to respond to this post, because I've been thinking about these same issues a lot recently.

    I think currently I fall somewhere between category A and B. For awhile after leaving the JW's I simply set aside matters of faith, though I began attending a Christian church with my parents in 2008. The reason for that....well....I can't say that I experienced a 100% bona fide divine miracle, but something very unusual happened that made me think "Hey maybe this God fellow actually is up there." I've since had other experiences which I think are more than mere coincidence. I can elaborate on these in a future post if people want.

    Right now though I have serious doubts about the divine authorship of the Bible. Oddly enough, the reason for these is an issue which does not personally concern me at all: homosexuality.

    But let me back up a bit. I initially believed, as I always had, that the Bible was word-for-word from the mouth of God. Two scriptures made me reconsider this idea: 2 Tim 4:13 and 1 Cor 7:25.

    2 Tim 4:13 reads, "When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, and my scrolls, especially the parchments." The idea that this sentence came straight from the mouth of God seemed ludicrous to me. Imagine God saying, "Okay Paul, what I'm going to tell you next is of the utmost importance, and will benefit Christians for millenia to come: Tell Timothy to bring the cloak you left in Troas. Okay that's enough for today, we'll write more holy scripture tomorrow." It seemed to me that this was a personal remark of Paul's, nothing more. However this begs the question, "If this passage is not divinely inspired, than what other portions of the Bible are not?"

    The other scripture was 1 Cor 7:25, which reads: "Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy." (NASB) It seems impossible to reconcile the teaching that "All scripture is inspired of God" with this verse here. Paul explicitly says "What I'm about to tell you is not divinely inspired; it's my opinion." He then proceeds to tell the Corinthians that they ought not to get married, since they will experience more tribulation. As I considered the verse this troubling thought occurred to me: Fundamentalist Christians believe that this verse, like all Bible verses, is inspired of God and yet, if the church as a whole heeded this advice, Christianity would die out within one generation.

    But as I said in the beginning the issue that troubles me the most right now is the Bible's stance on homosexuality. There are a few reasons for this.

    I used to believe that homosexuality was a lifestyle choice, one that could be changed if the person wanted. I thought to myself "If homosexuality is a sin, God can help people change." Well, I've since had to change my thinking. I've since met a few gay people in person and gotten to know them, and I have found out that they did not choose their sexual orientation; rather they discovered they were attracted to the same sex at an early age, like 12 or 13. I also read a book written by a gay Christian called "Stranger at the Gate." In it the author, Mel White, relates how he began feeling homosexual urges at an early age and spent the next 30 years trying to "cure" himself. He tried unceasing prayer, thousands of dollars worth of counseling, faith healings, exorcisms, electroshock therapy, isolation, he was even driven to attempt suicide twice, all the while experiencing emotional turmoil and frustration at the fact that his orientation simply could not be changed, only supressed, and with disasterous results.

    After reading this book I thought, "I can't imagine that God of love would sentence his children to live a life of loneliness and misery, simply because they were born different." Even worse is the passage at Romans 1:18-27, which seems to imply that homosexuality is caused by one's own godlessness and idolatrous ways. Oh yeah, there's also the matter of the gay penguins. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_and_Silo) Were Roy and Silo so wicked that God "gave them over to shameful lusts"? At this time I can't imagine a loving God imposing such an impossible restriction on people born gay. It doesn't make sense. What does make sense, however, is that these words were written by a fallible man who knew nothing about the workings of human sexuality.

    I think that's all I got for now. I'm in the process of rereading the Bible with a more-critical eye. So far I've come across a good number of things that cast serious doubt on Jehovah's claim to be all-loving. And I'm not even out of Genesis!

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    I am getting to know that I didnt know anything. I was in the same position as you EOM since you believe in God, where did you get the idea of God? from the Bible right? ok well then how bout researching the bible and if it is really inspired by God....

    The Bible Unearthed - Finkelstein

    Who wrote the Bible- Elliot Friedman

    Misquoting Jesus-Ehrman

    read and you will unlearn some stuff

    best wishes

  • Rydor
    Rydor

    EOM,

    In one of your posts you mentioned something about the "end" taking a long time to come. Have you ever investigated the preterist view of the Bible? At this point I'm convinced that, if the Bible IS of divine origin (highly suspect), then this view makes the most sense.

    Basically preterists believe that either most or all of Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled, and that when NT writers spoke of the imminent "end" they were referring to the end of the Old Covenant system and the destruction of Jerusalem. Actually, the book of Revelation is viewed as one big prophecy of judgment against Jerusalem (in the same way Jeremiah was). Many preterists believe the "harlot" of Revelation corresponds to the nation of Israel, and there's surprisingly strong scriptural evidence for this. (Compare, for example, Revelation 18:24 with Matthew 23:34,35. Also compare Revelation 6:15,16 with Luke 23:28-30)

    This view makes sense to me and explains why Jesus could say "I am coming quickly" nearly 2000 years ago. It also explains why the first chapter of Revelation says the events will occur "shortly" and that the "time is near." I still can't speak of the Bible as being the infallible word of God, for reasons I mentioned earlier. But I still found this interpretation fascinating.

    For more info you can visit http://www.preterist.org/whatispreterism.asp

    You can also check out this compelling lecture by Dr. Kenneth Gentry, presented in series on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkhtW-W9KpI His presentation is clear, well-thought-out, and his delivery is refreshingly-free from dogmatism, unlike the believe-us-or-die attitude of the Watchtower org.

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Rydor, I have the same issues with the supposed Biblical taboos on homosexuality.

    One thing I found very reassuring, although I still don't expect or need the Bible to be absolute or infallible, is that a lot of bias was inserted into the Bible via translation.

    In Hebrew and Greek, those scriptures read quite differently, the ones used to support homophobia.

    It's always good to ask people who actually know those languages, instead of wannabe JW pseudo bible scholars who chose the wrong shoulders to stand upon because apparently, they already had a ripping case of homophobia.

    People always love it when they think God approves of their unsupported, dip-shit opinions.

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    EndofMysteries:

    "The scriptures say a lot about your conscious, anything done in a bad conscious is a sin. Anytime you do something you question or know may not be right, is a sin. Whether your believe or not, or know the truth or not. It doesn't take the bible or anybody telling you, that murder is wrong, rape is wrong, etc. Jesus also said not by searching the scriptures could they find life, because of the way they lived. If the true God is 'perfect' in justice, he would have things done in a way that's fair for all. What's to say that he is not PURPOSELY having the truth very hard to find and not really in public eye? Because he wants to see what choices and how some would live if they thought it didn't exist or can't be found. He's allowing ones to show their true selves. Those who think they have it, even if wrong, may be building up a record of judging when they were guilty of other things and no more deserving. (As a JW, most of us are probably guilty of that. )"

    I don't discount that there may be some kind of 'creator' or 'spirit type galactic designer' -- hell, maybe lots of them! But, as an agnostic -- I-don't-know... However, the Bible god has earned No respect and therefore, No belief in my mind.

    If you take just one or two of the most violent episodes of the god described therein, it should make you wonder about "his" mental state.

    1. Adam & Eve...according to the Bible, stole a piece of fruit. For that little disobedience, they were run out of Paradise and punished in such a way that they would eventually die (fair enough-they were "His" pets). But, "He" obviously screwed-up their DNA, so they would pass on EVERY disease, ailment, deformity, mental illness, etc. that ALL of mankind suffers with...all the way down to us. ALL of these descendants of the true guilty parties are INNOCENT and being punished for "...the sins of the father (and mother).

    Plainly, that is UNFAIR.

    2. Noah's Fantastic Voyage: OK, if the Bible god made everything, it was "His" to destroy. He apparently enjoys being a bully. So, He kills all but 8 people, all the animals, insects, trees, grass, etc., that wouldn't fit on Noah's little Ark. And, what's the FIRST thing He does after seeing what He had done to His beautiful creations ??? He promises to "...NEVER call down EVIL upon the ground again..." Gen. 8:21. (Next time they'll burn). He's always in DESTRUCT mode. Earlier, He said, "He REGRETTED making man..." That's...an 'All Knowing', All Wise, Loving God...???

    Plainly, that is not Justice or Love or Wisdom. If, a human were to act as the Bible god has -- we lock 'em up. We can't lock up a concept, tho'.

  • Quillsky
    Quillsky
    "I can't imagine that God of love would sentence his children to live a life of loneliness and misery, simply because they were born different."

    Beautiful, Rydor.

    Keep exploring.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    C. Atheist - I can understand those loosing faith in bible, but everything in existance, I can't believe was random. I see far too much evidence of intelligent design, and how all supposedly randomness, with intelligent thinking ability, we as humans can't duplicate. If life happened on its own, why can't we create it ourselves. My question, is your path from being a JW, to not believe in bible, then not even in God. What made your belief firm in this?

    (Can't see the rest of the paste - blasted malfunction has "Ads by Google" and other junk pasted over post field...)

    Atheist because when I was 7 or 8 years old [and had been a rockhound for several years, and had just become fascinated by VOLCANOES!!!) and they read Exodus 19: 16 - 19 from the pulpit/podium, I recognized the scripture as a primitive, ignorant tribal group's attempt to explain a volcanic eruption...

    In that instant, the whole bible dissolved into nothingness for me - and eventually, so did all other deities, even tho I dabble a bit in 'Goddess' worship for the psychological healing...

    If the "gawd" of the Isra-EL-ites didn't even know enough about volcanoes to keep his tribal followers away from one??!!!! Then 'he' wasn't REAL!!!!

    The "REAL" 'gawd' or 'Goddess' WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT A VOLCANO REALLY WAS - and would have KEPT THEIR FOLLOWERS AWAY FROM IT!!!!

    After that, it was just a matter of time until I escaped from the cult - and deigned to ever enter another one...

    Zid

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit