How can I counter the isolation scripture?

by Strider Arekksu 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Strider Arekksu
    Strider Arekksu

    Well, I talked to some elders and basically said the organization was calling the prophets and God liars, because they were disgarding the importance and relavance of some of the prophecies. I told them that there is no true organization on the planet right now. I used Luke 21: 8, I used many scriptures and actually I qouted chapters, not just verses where it was obvious they were wrong, I counter verses, they didn't get them. Basically, they just said look at the people of the org, who else is like them, and said it was producing good fruit. I told them that the fruit means the teachings not the actual people, but they kept saying look at the people. Eventually, use of the scriptures stopped on their end. I'm going to pray and Sunday decide if I want to be a JW anymore, although, after this, I know where I stand.

    I was called a tool of Satan if I left and that the books taken out of the Bible (by the Gentiles) were taken out because they were apostic, even though the people of the Bible quoted them. How in the WORLD could they be unacceptable if the people in the past qouted from them? They didn't asnwer that, I said that the Bible prooves that there will be Gentiles who did not serve the true God who survive the end, they didn't respond to that. They basically advized me to stay in the org. even though there are things wrong with the teachings that they can't answer. The only thing they said that I couldn't really counter was the isolation thing. If there is no one teaching truth though, you have to work with the Bible, it's all you have. There were plenty of times where people served the true God by themselves. I actually had a good argument, but I was getting emotionally stressed out, so it looked like I was doing a bad job.

  • tec
    tec

    I actually had a good argument, but I was getting emotionally stressed out, so it looked like I was doing a bad job.

    Don't beat yourself up over that. It happens to the best of us, and you probably did quite well despite your concerns. You can't help it if your argument falls on deaf ears.

    If there is no one teaching truth though, you have to work with the Bible, it's all you have.

    I would add that you also have Christ. If no one is teaching the truth, use the Bible as a guide because the teachings of Christ are written in it - but put your faith in Christ, Himself. You don't need an organization to be able to that.

    Tammy

  • teel
    teel
    you have to work with the Bible, it's all you have.
    I would add that you also have Christ.

    Don't forget the Holy Spirit. The JW teaching that the HS only helps a small group of people called annointed (and not even them in fullest, only a very restricted "slave" group, aka GB) is simply lie. I view it as a tool of the devil to draw people away from God.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    First, congratulations for standing up to the borg representatives, Strider. I am sure you did fine.

    To the question of the isolation scripture they use, Proverbs 14:18: the one isolating himself will seek his own selfish longing; against all practical wisdom he will break forth, I would counter with Jesus Christ's own words: where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there with them, from Matthew 18:20.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Use their translation.

    Know the context and bring it into the discussion.

    Learn cross-referenced material.

    Understand the times, the people, the background.

    And don't let them hop from scripture to scripture, topic to topic before it is thoroughly discussed. jws have a tendency to start a new topic/scripture when they are not "winning" and cognitive dissonance is settling in.

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    Well I can think of the case where King David said "screw this BS with Saul! I'm going to go be a mercenary for the Philistines.". David came back AFTER God had Saul killed.

    (and David was a "man after God's own heart...")

    So when the Borg dies, you can go back!

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free

    If isolation is so bad, then why do JWs isolate themselves from "the world", refusing any information that isn't endorsed by the governing body? Aren't they seeking "their own selfish longing" by ignoring every viewpoint but their own?

    W

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    If by isolation you mean, who will teach you, well, the same person that taught Paul.

    What did Jesus tell his disciples when he left? that the HS woudl guide them and tell them the truth.

  • Strider Arekksu
    Strider Arekksu

    Thank you all so much, I am very greatful, I really think I made God proud that night, I used many scriptures but they didn't respond, they didn't care if I countered them.

    My dad was in as a bystandard but he didn't really get what was going on. He just got brainwashed further even though he hasn't been to meetings in years, he said that the brothers have love for what they were doing with me. I didn't feel that, I was telling them that they were wrong, using scripture and history to prove it, and they were defending the doctrine EVEN if it meant calling God and the prophets liars, I told them that and they didn't defend it, I don't see how they can live with that.

    The told me that God always had an organization, I said yes, and I said Isreal, but right now Isreal is being punished until Jesus returns, thus no one is teaching the full truth. I then told them that Gentiles were NEVER given authority to teach the ways of Jesus. They didn't say anything.

    I told them there was nowhere to go, they said yes, but they didn't understand that I meant INCLUDING the organization. And when I got that point across they said, even if they are wrong, at least the people are good... really? Is that enough for God? I thought he wanted us to worship in spirit and in TRUTH!

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    "Wherever two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them" The organization hates this key because it can unlock the dungeon. Believe it. Read Mark 9 and ask them why Jesus said not to prevent a man who was not following the rest of the group. Believe that we have to stand with our conscience before God and ourselves and our fellow humans. We can never stand without it. God is more merciful than they are. Go with it and God will bless you.

    Maeve

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