Is there any evidence of any part of this statement at all other than the fact that man presently lives on earth?
Man is not designed or equipped if you prefer, to live anywhere else.
PARADISE EARTH OR HEAVEN? OR BOTH?
by exjw2814 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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PSacramento
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awildflower
It's a parodox: heaven on earth, IMHO.
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AGuest
Thankyou for the post Aguest! I appreciate your insight into the matter. It's very encouraging.
You are quite welcome, dear exjw... and peace to you! Please keep in mind that it is not "my" insight, as much as it is what was given to me by my Lord. And so the thanks, and glory, should go there. Some folks really don't get that truth, but I would be deceitfully taking credit for something that I did not come up with. I only understand the City myself because (1) my Lord has shown it to me, and (2) I will be a part of it, indeed I know my "place" in it (chambermaid, and all that comes with that - LOL!).
So the NEW JERUSALEM isn't really a physical thing, it's just spiritual?
Hmmmm... let's see: "physical" means "terrestrial" (of the earth, of the physical realm). Since "we" will be on the earth, visible, touchable, speak-to-able... and since the entire purpose is to bring together... AGAIN... the things in the heavens (spirit realm) AND the things on the earth (physical realm)... the City WILL be a part of the physical earth. As the garden in Eden was. However, since "we", those who make UP that City will be spirit beings... in substance (incorruptible) as well as essence ("clean" in spirit, the "man" we are on the INSIDE), and thus "celestial" (of the heavens/spirit realm)... it will also be "spiritual".
Now, is the City a physical PLACE were people will come? Not quite. Although it will be a LITERAL "place"... just as Christ is literal... it will not be something "handmade"... as with sticks and stones. It is made of people, those who constitute the Bride of Christ. So that then, just as now, there is no physical place to go away TO. There is only a WHOM (John 6:68). Right now, that "whom" is Christ... the current "temple" of God (think as to where God's holy spirit WENT when it abandoned the temple at Jerusalem - into Christ, the HEAD of the TRUE temple of God). But he is still "building" the FULL "temple"... his BODY... which will became as a city. THEN, it is the "City"... New Jerusalem... that people will "go away to." For he (Christ) will reside in the MIDDLE of that City, inside those who make UP that City. (Luke 17:21).
The building of that City starts with the "temple"... which Christ has been "building" since he left in 30CE and will finish when he returns and gathers its "stones" together to comment the 1,000-year reign... and ends when all those who HAVE "gone away to" that City... become part of it. Then, God and Christ will be its "temple"... or the "holy of holies" within in. (Revelation 21:22)
If so, why would the bible give a precise and detailed measurement of the NEW JERUSALEM if it was something spiritual?
For two reasons:
First, for the same reason that He gave precise and detailed measurement of the Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle at Sinai, and the Temple at Jerusalem: because sometimes, in order to describe or properly depict something SPIRITUAL... it has to be put in PHYSICAL terms or described as to things of the PHYSICAL realm. Because earthling man is, well, earthly. Fleshly. NOT spiritual. And so SPIRITUAL things very often cannot be understood or perceived by him. John 3:12
Second, because discerning what these things really are... and/or look like... isn't for all. Matthew 11:25; 13:35; Mark 4:11; 4:34; Luke 10:21-24 (Now, don't you folks... and you know who you are... go getting all twitter-pated over that truth. It IS the truth, but that doesn't mean YOU are included among those who such things "aren't for." It very well MAY be for you... and you just haven't discerned THAT truth yet, which is what is standing in the way of YOU discerning the truth about such things. Rather than get all hot-under-the-collar, though, FOR those who are not included, or that there ARE those who are not included... why not first find out about yourself? I'm mean, I'm just sayin'...)
It seems to me it's hard to understand what is symbolic and what isn't.
If one is yet fleshly, yes. It is. 1 Corinthians 2:13
Do you beleive in the rapture?
Not as most believe/describe it. But that those of us who belong to the Christ and are alive when he returns will never die, but be immediately changed... "in the twinkling of an eye"... and ascend, at the same time as and along with those who belong to Christ but have died are resurrected... yes. I absolute do believe in that event. Indeed, I hope to be a part of that part of it (i.e., that my Lord will return in my lifetime). If not, then I look forward to being a part of it by means of the first resurrection.
Are you a born again Christian?
Yes and no. Yes, in that I have received the "token" of that "birth" - an anointing with holy spirit, by means of which I have been "conceived" of God's spirit... and sealed (praise JAH!); however, I have not yet put off the old body of flesh... with IT'S blood... and put ON the NEW body, the "white robe"... a SPIRIT body... so that I am born AGAIN... this time, as a spirit. But I CERTAINLY look forward to it! Who wouldn't? A body that is not bound by physical limitations and restraints... that doesn't have to sleep, or poop. That doesn't get sick, tired, old. That doesn't die. That only needs to EAT and DRINK... from the Tree of Life, the One who is the Rock-Mass? Seriously? Sign ME up!
I mean, I LOVE life and I most certainly WOULD want to live forever... but not in my current vessel (of flesh). Way too much to "maintain." And mine likes to "fight" me (and sometimes wins!). I would love to have a body that I completely controlled. Completely. In all respects. And to be able to just get up and go... well, I mean, not even have to get up. Just... go. Eat a few leaves (from the Tree of Life). Drink a little of "life's water" (holy spirit, which bubbles up IN me to impart everlasting life). No fuss, no muss. Yep, that's the body for ME! And I eagerly look forward to it.
But I don't commisurate the body I have now. I mean, it's mine, it's what I got. And I live with it. For now.
Just wondering. Once again thank you and God Bless!
I totally understand. Absolutely NO problem and, again, you are quite welcome!
Peace to you, and may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His and Christ, the Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, be upon you... if you so wish it!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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exjw2814
Aguest, you are officially the MAN! thankyou for that post. Very interesting. It seems very beleivable, and it does seem to make ALOT of sense.
Very good point, I never seen someone describe it like this before:
"However, since "we", those who make UP that City will be spirit beings... in substance (incorruptible) as well as essence ("clean" in spirit, the "man" we are on the INSIDE), and thus "celestial" (of the heavens/spirit realm)... it will also be "spiritual".
I have the same feeling about being born again as you, and other similar viewpoints. Thankyou for sharing, and may all the praise and glory go to our father and his son Christ Jesus. God Bless!
Thanks for all the posts everyone, keep posting! It's indeed a very interesting topic of discussion.
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Truthexplorer
After Jesus ressurection certain ones would be chosen / sealed by God to go to heaven (144000 faithful servants-Rev 7:4). The majority of these ones are a sleep in death at the present time until the marriage of the lamb-soon to take place.
1 Thes 4:13-18- Moreover, brothers, we do not want YOU to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that YOU may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. 14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.
The choosing of these ones has been ongoing down through the centuries from the millions of other Christians during that time right up to the present. That is why Jesus could say to his disciples luke 16:16.
These tried and tested faithful ones will rule as Kings and priests over the earth Rev 5:10
They are the ones who go to heaven to be with Christ for such a purpose.
The earth will one day be filled with meek people. Matt 5:5
That is why Jesus correctly said the following in his sermon on the mount, when speaking about those who will be going to heaven and those who would reside on earth. Though not fully grasped at the time, It is only through spiritual insight that people could fully understand the meaning of his speech. Instead of it being contadictory, it makes absolute sense in light of the inspired writings that had come about since then.
Matt 5:1
3
“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.4
“Happy are those who mourn, since they will be comforted.5
“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.6
“Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled.7
“Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.8
“Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.9
“Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.’10
“Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.11
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. 12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.When he saw the crowds he went up into the mountain; and after he sat down his disciples came to him; 2 and he opened his mouth and began teaching them, saying:TE
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Truthexplorer
Sorry, my cutting and pasting skills are on the decline
1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
TE
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AGuest
Aguest, you are officially the MAN!
Actually, dear exjw... I is a gurl.
Peace to you and, again, you are quite welcome! Glad to have been of [some] "service"!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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exjw2814
OH im sorry! And thankyou!:)