If Scientology has Narcanon, and it has gotten people off drugs (although that 85% sucess rate they say they have is suspect), and becoming a JW sorta forces you into line, would it make sense to leave someone in if they were helping them? If you knew somebody was a drunk, sex addict, drug addict, what have you, and they were studying, and it appeared that they were actually being helped (albeit by twisted means) would you leave them be? Like, if Uncle Jim was a fall down drunk that ran around on his wife, then someone introduced him to the WTS, and it all stopped, would you still try and expose the cult even if they were actually helping and it was working?
If someone is benefitting from being in a cult, should we leave them there?
by Confuzzled 41 Replies latest jw friends
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yknot
If he was born/raised JW......that might be the cause of his problems. .... The WTS banks on making people feel unworthy.
I think beyond that each situation varies, each of us are at different points on the same road.
However many of us still feel strongly about WTS teachings such as the below...but in reverse.
""They are in a position of being rescued, and those who are in a position to do so have an obligation to give them all the assistance possible to ‘snatch them out of the fire.’ """
In the 'world' I suppose many would akin it to anti-drug ads that show two friends, one is high and walking on a train track, train approaching in the distance....... the other pans to the audience and says to the effect'.....'Its her life,right.....and then you see conflict in the her eyes... does she shove her friend off the tracks, away from the approaching locomotive or allow her to be killed in her willfully induced drug haze....
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Black Sheep
I doubt that there is any help available from any cult that isn't available from somewhere less harmful.
Once recruited, the new cult member will be out on the streets looking for new victims.
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alanv
It's a very good question. My son was going off the rails in several ways before he became a witness. We his parents were trying to help and guide him but he wasn't listening. Then he got in with the witnesses and to be honest they did sort him out.
As black sheep says the same help would have been available elsewhere, but he chose this route.
He is now a much more resposable adult, but on the negative side he is going round people's doors telling them they will die if they don't change their ways. Also he does not have the ability to reason things out for himself, and of course he keeps his distance from the family because of the JW aversion to certain celebrations.
So there is good and bad. But to be fair, he did need something to help him, it's just a shame it had to be this religion.
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Scottiebear7
In my opinion, you are just trading one addiction for another. Just like alcoholism, drug addiction, etc., these cults destroy families, turn away friends, make you spend all your money on them, and make you a mindless zombie. So, no, I don't see becoming a "religaholic" any better than any other addiction.
Of course, I'm biased, the WTBT$ destroyed my family, and yes, I am very bitter.
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Caligula1
Confuzzled,
Great thread.
Scottiebear7,
Thank you for your honesty.
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Steve Hassan, in Combatting Cult Mind Control (I met him about 20 years ago), wrote that 5% of the people are better of in a cult than outside of it. I think the figure could be higher.
If we perceive that to be a true statement, and we can identify that group to the best of our ability, then I believe it to be "cruel and unusual punishment" to try to bring them out.
If I get someone out of the organization, and they committement suicide (or comitt crimes) because they can not cope with "my new light". I would feel so bad.
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Mad Sweeney
Why would anyone commit suicide or crime just because they're no longer tied down by a cult?
And it is a HUGE leap of logic to assume that just because one stopped drinking or smoking in order to get baptized into a cult that STAYING in the cult is helping them or that LEAVING would put them right back where they were.
I think a very very very small percentage of people need a cult like JWs because they ALREADY NEEDED someone to think for them. They haven't lost anything by joining because they already lacked independence. Still, even for those, learning to be free could be much more valuable than remaining in.
The only ones I feel might not benefit from cult extraction are those who have spent a lifetime IN, and are now elderly with no family and no place to go. ALL others would benefit from removal from the cult.
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Terry
In the late 40's and early 50's frontol lobotomy was a prescribed surgical method for dealing with depression.
Part of the front of the brain was destroyed which left the patient a functioning, non-emotional asparagus!
If this is "helping" them I say why not redefine what help actually means.
That would be my answer to your question, too. Redefine "benefitting".
People are entitled to their own mind, a clear view of reality and autonomy in their life. It is maturity, growth and self-discipline that will get them there and not a cult or surgery on their brain.
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Scarred for life
You cannot remove somebody from a cult unless they want to leave on some level. It's the same with alcohol and drug addiction. The main motivation has to come from the addicted person. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.
I agree that the elderly who have spent a lifetime IN and have no family and no place to go should be left alone in their fantasy world.
I also agree with Steve Hassan that about 5% of cult members need the cult in order to function. But that would include the elderly and sick as well as the mentally ill that need to be told what to do and need tremendous structure in their lives.
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garyneal
I've been reading Combatting Cult Mind Control and a couple of points from that book this brings to mind:
While the cult may have helped someone with their addictions, Steve Hassan points out that it is important to remind the individual that they got themselves off the addictions.
He also points out how cults break your spirit and then build you back up with a new personality. Rehab programs do this too, however the main difference between cults and rehab programs is that once they break the addicts spirit down from his addiction, they don't replace it with a cult like personality. In other words, the free the individual and help them to expand their choices in life, not limit them. This is a far cry from the cults that seek to limit your choices in life.
But I suppose there is that segment of the population who are better living inside cults. Personally, I think my mother-in-law is happy living within the cult.