Which do we choose and Why?

by Terry 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    Religion does as it is told. It follows.

    Science questions, tests, proves and moves forward.

    Religion gives its answers without listening to your questions.

    Science seeks to disprove its conclusions.

    Religion seeks to reinforce its dogma.

    Science error-corrects while adjusting for realities.

    Religion imagines a better world; reality doesn't matter.

    Science is the human mind, progress, technology, the promise of tomorrow.

    Religion disdains progress, hankers for the end.

    Science creates medicine, understanding of DNA, the human genome

    Religion makes humanity unworthy and corrupt.

    Science forces peer review.

    Religion gives us warring camps, cunning cults, divisions and absolute obstinancy.

    Science gives hospitals, MRI, X-ray, transplants, chemotherapy, innoculations, nutrition, therapy and longevity.

    Religion expects us to die and tells us we deserve it.

    Science replaces witchcraft with wisdom.

    Religion burns witches, skins scholars, tortures thinkers, burns books and channels God

    Science is the child of Aristotle, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Hawking

    Religion is the child of elitists stoning children, dominating women, forcing submission walking lockstep, closing minds.

    Science is the Enlightenment

    Religion the Dark Ages

    The Thinker is a call to progress

    The believer is not a voice. The believer is an echo.

    Which do we choose: Compliant superstition or the power of the thinking mind?

    Why?

  • tec
    tec

    Question - do you appreciate the difference between faith and organized religion? Faith might be found in organized religion, but organized religion is not faith.

    Regardless of what you think on that matter, these feel like blanket statements; very generalized. Not all religions teach the things stated above, and the question at the end seems extremely leading. Superstition is defined as an irrational belief in something... but many people of faith consider their faith to be rational... albeit, not scientifically proven.

    Tammy

  • God_Delusion
    God_Delusion

    "do you appreciate the difference between faith"

    Do you even know what faith is? If so, please explain it to me so that I too can understand that this concept isn't based on no evidence, no facts and isn't at all or in any way blind.

    Carlos

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I think that, perhaps, your views on what religion is to you may not be sahred by all Terry.

    I think that some of what you said is valid for organized religion, but religion per say, is nothing but an inanimate object, it can't do or be anything.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    An example:

    you said that: Religion makes humanity unworthy and corrupt.

    Christianity teaches us that God so loved humanity that he gave his own begotten son for it.

    God felt that humanity was worthy enough for him to came to US as HUMAN and be oen of us, suffer like one of us and die a horrific death, for US, to show US hwo worthy we truly are.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Question - do you appreciate the difference between faith and organized religion?

    answer: did I mention "faith"?

    Faith might be found in organized religion, but organized religion is not faith.

    Did I mention "faith?"

    Regardless of what you think on that matter, these feel like blanket statements; very generalized.

    How would I possibly make them specific?

    Not all religions teach the things stated above, and the question at the end seems extremely leading.

    The best way to refute something you feel is incorrect is by giving a counter-example. Would you care to?

    Superstition is defined as an irrational belief in something... but many people of faith consider their faith to be rational... albeit, not scientifically proven.

    The reason superstition is defined as irrational belief is because it doesn't deal with reality, only the imagination.

    The "people of faith" who consider their faith to be rational are of an opinion which itself MUST be irrational since it is not connected to reality.

    Here is why. What is rational is logically demonstrated by experiment with predictable results and conforms to the laws of nature. It is testible and falsifiable. People of faith express a wishful opinion completely inconsist with predictable results or falsifiability.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Do you even know what faith is? If so, please explain it to me so that I too can understand that this concept isn't based on no evidence, no facts and isn't at all or in any way blind.

    Faith is blind because one doesn't use the eyes to see imaginary things. Faith is deaf because the ears are useless for hearing voices in your head.

    Faith follows the thing heard. Hearsay isn't allowed in a court of law because people make things up!

    Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for....and hope is what leads gamblers to lose their life savings when the dice come up craps.

    Faith is the evident demonstration of realites though not beheld. Sort of like buying swamp land because there's gold there!

    Every person has a choice of living in the real world and getting an education about how things really work OR making things up that promise a better life in the bye and bye. It is a real choice!

  • Terry
    Terry
    I think that some of what you said is valid for organized religion, but religion per say, is nothing but an inanimate object, it can't do or be anything.

    Religion is somebody pulling imaginary ideas together and convincing people to share in the same delusion.

    Personal religion is an individual person making things up all by themselves and fooling themselves about how things really are.

    Delusion is delusion whether it is faith in an inanimate object or an imaginary one in the sky!

  • Terry
    Terry

    you said that: Religion makes humanity unworthy and corrupt.

    Christianity teaches us that God so loved humanity that he gave his own begotten son for it.

    God felt that humanity was worthy enough for him to came to US as HUMAN and be oen of us, suffer like one of us and die a horrific death, for US, to show US hwo worthy we truly are.

    God has judged mankind as unworthy and corrupt, yes?

    What is "grace"?

    It is undeserved and unmerited, right?

    Why is it undeserved and unmerited if not because mankind is UNworthy and corrupt?

    God has a perfect and righteous standard that we fall short of, right?

    Because God is perfect and his standard is perfect we deserve death do we not?

    Well then, we have a huge problem!

    For God to condemn man to death, execute that judgement all through history and then suddenly change His standards and declare we are "worthy" is a destruction of His moral foundation and a repudiation of his perfection and righteousness.

    Don't you see that?

    Justice is getting what you deserve and not getting what you don't deserve.

    Jesus was innocent of sin. Did Jesus get what HE deserved? No!

    Mankind is sinful and corrupt. Does it DESERVE to die? Yes.

    Yet, Jesus died (got what he did NOT deserve) while man was forgiven (given what was not deserved).

    Justice is violated.

    Righteous standards are violated.

    Moral Soverignty is violated.

    How can you believe this stuff? It is fantastical nonsense!

    I will tell you why----religion has taught you to lose your rational thinking ability.

    Therefore, my above topic post is CORRECT.

  • tec
    tec

    Question - do you appreciate the difference between faith and organized religion?

    Perhaps I worded that wrong. I didn't mean to strike a defense chord. I was only wondering if you considered faith and organized religion to be the same thing.

    How would I possibly make them specific?

    Sorry. Not sure I know what you mean. Are you asking me how I would have worded the statements to make them more specific?

    The best way to refute something you feel is incorrect is by giving a counter-example. Would you care to?

    Okay.

    The following is taken from the Unitarian Universalist website. Its one of the few that I looked up to prove that not all religions believe the statements you made. The bolding is mine, and directly contradicts these following statements that you had listed:

    -Religion does as it is told. It follows.

    -Religion gives its answers without listening to your questions.

    -Religion seeks to reinforce its dogma

    -Religion disdains progress (I'm not actually sure which religions you think disdain progress other than those like the amish)

    -Religion makes humanity unworthy and corrupt.

    -Religion burns witches, skins scholars, tortures thinkers, burns books and channels God

    -Religion is the child of elitists stoning children, dominating women, forcing submission walking lockstep, closing minds.

    -Religion the Dark Ages

    And here are their beliefs.

    The beliefs of Unitarian Universalists are diverse: About one in four identifies themselves to be Christian. Many do not believe in, or question, the existence of a "God" deity or deities. They often describe themselves as agnostics, atheists, humanists, free thinkers... Some maintain other religious traditions from around the world: Buddhism, Hinduism, Neopaganism, Judaism etc.

    Unitarianism features a lack of dogma, a belief in the inherent goodness of people, and the obligation for each member to seek out and develop his or her own system of beliefs and ethics. You are encouraged to explore your own intuition and personal leanings.

    Universalism is a religious movement which promotes the concept that every person will go to heaven after death. This contrasts with the traditional Christian belief that one's natural destination is eternal torment in hell and only those who are 'saved' will go to heaven. Unitarians and Universalists co-exist happily though their views may differ.

    Small rainbow

    More about Unitarian Universalist Beliefs

    Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion born of the Jewish and Christian traditions. We keep our minds open to the religious questions people have struggled with in all times and places.

    • We believe that personal experience, conscience and reason should be the final authorities in religion. In the end religious authority lies not in a book or person or institution, but in ourselves. We put religious insights to the test of our hearts and minds.
    • We uphold the free search for truth. We will not be bound by a statement of belief. We do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. We say ours is a noncreedal religion. Ours is a free faith.
    • We believe that religious wisdom is everchanging. Human understanding of life and death, the world and its mysteries, is never final. Revelation is continuous. We celebrate unfolding truths known to teachers, prophets and sages throughout the ages.
    • We affirm the worth of all women and men. We believe people should be encouraged to think for themselves. We know people differ in their opinions and life-styles and believe these differences generally should be honored.
    • We seek to act as a moral force in the world, believing that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion. The here and now and the effects our actions will have on future generations deeply concern us. We know that our relationships with one another, with other peoples, races and nations, should be governed by justice, equity and compassion.

    As for the leading question, I think it is similar to asking, "Would you rather be stupid and believe in religion which does not promote free thought, or would you rather be smart and choose science which does?"

    No rational person is going to choose number one in the biased way that it is worded. Obviously, at least one religion promote free thinking and the power of thought.

    Tammy

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