WHEN is a simple question--but, the Bible just can't help us answer

by Terry 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Terry

  12 Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14 And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else.

  16 Be joyful always; 17 pray continually; 18 give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

  19 Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; 20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22 Avoid every kind of evil.

  23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

  25 Brothers, pray for us. 26 Greet all the brothers with a holy kiss. 27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers.

  28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with yo u.

  You first notice there isn't any actual "information" in this exhortation. No data. No "divine mind" as much as fortune cookie sentiment.

  Should we not expect something from the supreme being of a "supreme" nature otherwise unavailable??

  A peptalk is a peptalk. It is certainly lovely and positive and amenable. But, you'd never confuse the contents with Euclid, Archimedes, Aristotle, or other great mind of science in the way of specifics, measurements, testable hypothesis and such.

  My argument with the bible is that it isn't much more than mundane human ideas passed off as much more than that and couched in transcendant language, metaphor and allegory.
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  Terry

  Terry,

  There are a few books out there on the authenticity of the NT works, have you read them?

  Working, as I do, in a used bookstore (in the Religion section!) I lay hands upon a great many theology books and texts, histories and such.

  We have a policy at work that employees can "check out" any item in the store for 30 days like a lending library. I don't have to tell you I have saved a large fortune on book purchases! I get to read books you'd never find in a regular bookstore. Some of the theology textbooks alone would sell

  for close to $200!

  So, the short answer is: "yes!"

  There are three kinds of religious books.

  1. Advocate 2.Polemic 3.General information

  I always try to take a subject and read both extremes first followed by the general information book afterward. That way, I can quickly figure out where the points of tension and controversy lie.

  So many things are a matter of assertion it is quite daunting.
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  PSacramento

  Any suggestions for reading material Terry?
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  moshe

  Terry, the Bible has many clues that point us away from inspiration and towards human creation. Like the three different versions of the king of the Jews sign over Jesus' cross. Either the writers weren't there, they forgot what the sign said or they made it up. Either way, God did not deem it important enough to inspire anyone to remember the one true version. What else falls into the human invention category? If God had wanted to make sure the original writings were preserved, don't you think He would have been able to make it happen? Back in King Josiah's time the lost scrolls were miraculously found (lost for 80 years) and trotted out for everyone to hear. It's not like the Jews had a dusty basement like the Vatican were scrolls could get misplaced. Something about that story always seemed suspicious to me. Some scholars say Josiah actually brought out a new and improved version of the Torah and it made him look good, too.
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  Quentin

  There was a man named Jesus, from Gallile, baptized by John the baptizer. Holy Sprit, in the from of a dove....read close the accounts, you will see John is the only witness to this... came upon Jesus, after which he begain a public proclimation of his theology...21/2 to 3 years later he was executed by the Roman's at Jerusalem.....

  There was a man named Saul, later know as Paul, who had a vision of the raised and glorfied Jesus, after which he to begain a public proclaiming of his theology. Later arested, sent to Rome for trial where after 3yrs he passes from the record.

  The dates, lenght of time for their ministry, and their ages can be gussed from the bible record only. Their is no "historical record of either". Odd, is it not?
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  Terry

  Any suggestions for reading material Terry?

  I list the ones that meant the most to me:

  TEN PHILOSOPHICAL MISTAKES Mortimer J. Adler

  THE HISTORY OF GOD Karen Armstrong

  WHO WROTE THE BIBLE Richard J. Friedman

  MISQUOTING JESUS Bart Ehrman

  ARISTOTLE'S CHILDREN Richard E. Rubenstein
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  jonathan dough

  Working, as I do, in a used bookstore (in the Religion section!) I lay hands upon a great many theology books and texts, histories and such.

  Just because you can read doesn't mean you can think. What's your education level? What university degrees do you hold? You try to come off as highly educated, but I think you have a lot of people fooled. Somehow you're placing yourself above the greatest theological minds of the last 2,000 years and you're going to set them straight? Who the heck are you? http://144000.110mb.com/index.html

  Get off your high horse for a while, why don't you?
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  Terry

  Terry, the Bible has many clues that point us away from inspiration and towards human creation. Like the three different versions of the king of the Jews sign over Jesus' cross. Either the writers weren't there, they forgot what the sign said or they made it up

  The most glaring example of this is in the Garden of Gethsemane where EVERYBODY but Jesus is sound asleep.

  The bible writer tells us word for word what Jesus spoke in his prayer to his father! At the very least you'd have to be standing

  very close to hear it, have a great memory and be wide awake!

  The whole scene is window dressing!
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  Terry

  Just because you can read doesn't mean you can think. What's your education level? What university degrees do you hold? You try to come off as highly educated, but I think you have a lot of people fooled. Somehow you're placing yourself above the greatest theological minds of the last 2,000 years and you're going to set them straight? Who the heck are you? http://144000.110mb.com/index.html

  Get off your high horse for a while, why don't you?

  The best way to defeat bad ideas is with better ones. Or do you just let those "greatest theological minds" do your thinking for you?

  Anything I write can be countered with a better argument from you IF you take the time and trouble to write it.

  This is a discussion board. My topics invite discussion. I'm not here to impress you with my "highly educated" opinions.

  Until you mentioned it I wasn't even aware that starting a topic on JWD required a higher education!

  You've already improved not only my mind but all the others here who discover this.

  Thank you.
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  AllTimeJeff

  Damn it!

  (I'm in a mood....)

  Dough, perhaps you don't realize the good that this board does, or the contributions that Terry has made. His arguments are logical, dispassionate, fully explained, and he comes back to answer questions.

  .....while you shamelessly plug your pro Christian website and insist that Terry isn't as smart as you?

  Smart is as smart ass as smart does.

  Terry, not my point to defend you per se. I for one always admire your posts, and while I am in favor of higher education, having had to deal with many college graduates, I can tell you that the possession of a degree in no way indicates real intelligence.

  Keep up the good work Terry. :)