We don't have the original writings of many of the great teachers though out the ages.
Why did Jesus allow people to believe in falsehood? John 6:51, 52, 66
by jwusr 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chalam
Mad Sweeney, understood :) This is what I find in the passage.
Many of the Jews there are in unbelief.
John 6:36 (New International Version)
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
John 6:40-42 (New International Version)
40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
41 At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42 They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
Of course, this gets no better as Jesus continues
John 6:52 (New International Version)
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
John 6:64 (New International Version)
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
We have to deal with the issue that those in unbelief are not called by the Father or "given to Jesus" John 6:37 John 6:39 John 6:65
This is the doctrine of predestination and is found from the start of the bible through to the end.
Anyhow, my advice is keep it simple, just as the gospel is itself
John 6:40 (New International Version)
40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Blessings,
Stephen
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keyser soze
Maybe he really wanted them to eat his flesh. Just a thought.
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Chalam
Highly unlikely, as Jesus was addressing Jews at the time
Leviticus 17:10-14 (New International Version)
10 " 'Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood."
13 " 'Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, 14 because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, "You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off."
Maybe they were Jewish Catholics? ;)
Blessings,
Stephen
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jwusr
Thank you for the serious responses everyone, this has been an interesting and informative discussion for me.
I'd like to clarify that these questions assume the actual meaning of what Jesus said was not literal.
I also think that Terry makes an interesting point that it should have really been clear to everyone that these words were not literal. I've never considered that before- I think I agree with that, and it only makes me look at these scriptures with even more incredulity. It seems to me that the apostles really should have known this was not literal.
Sweeny is right, one of the big questions I have is why did Jesus allow these people to misunderstand what he was saying? Correct me if wrong, but this was on purpose, right? 64 seems to show that it was purposeful. Were these people were pre-judged?Also- if it was purposeful, does that mean these people were deceived?
Stephen, predestination explains almost everything- thank you. But it also opens up new questions for me though.
It seems to mean that people are pre-judged from the beginning, not judged according to their actions based on knowledge of Truth.
To me, it seems to dillute the importance of Truth. If people can be judged regardless of their knowledge, why would God bother communicating with them at all? -
EverAStudent
In addition to the excellent explanation by one of the above posters, it is evident that no thinking person of the day *should* have taken the words literally because Jesus said them while He was still alive. How could the Twelve have eaten His flesh or drunk His blood while He was standing there passing out bread and wine with His own living hands? He had not died yet. Therefore, the Twelve knew it was a metaphor, and so should everyone else.
As stated before, Jesus said many things that drove unbelievers away from Him. At one point Jesus even scolded a crowd because they only came to Him for the free dinners!
How many religious leaders today purposely discourage the unfaithful from sticking around? Don't most religious leaders want big crowds to give the appearance of universal appeal and to get larger collections of money?
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Chalam
Hi jwusr,
It seems to mean that people are pre-judged from the beginning, not judged according to their actions based on knowledge of Truth.
"Knowledge of Truth" sounds like a WT doctrine, which is false. The NT talks repeatedly about salvation from faith in Jesus, not "knowledge of the truth."
Mark 2:5 Luke 7:48-50 John 12:11 Acts 24:24 Romans 3:22 Romans 3:26 Galatians 2:16 Galatians 3:22 Galatians 3:26 2 Timothy 3:15
As it is, Jesus is THE truth John 14:6 but you cannot gain true knowledge of Him from the WT because they substitute an impostor.
To me, it seems to dillute the importance of Truth. If people can be judged regardless of their knowledge, why would God bother communicating with them at all?
Fair question. You will have to ask Him and read your bible about that ;)
Isaiah 6:8-10 Mark 4:11-13 Acts 28:25-27 Romans 9:21
Predestination is a tricky subject but not one you can't pretend isn't a true doctrine. Try these for starters Romans 8 Ephesians 1 but for sure, predestination exists from cover to cover so keep your eyes open :)
My advice is to get the basics first. What is salvation? Who is Jesus? Why did He come to earth and die? What does He promise? What do I need to do to be saved?
Read your bible and the answers will come. Make sure you junk the NWT, it is corrupt from cover to cover.
Plenty of reputable ones here http://www.biblegateway.com/ or here http://www.biblos.com/
Make sure the Holy Spirit is your guide when you read John 14:16 John 14:26 John 15:26 John 16:7 1 Corinthians 2:14
Without Him you might as well being reading with your eyes closed.
Blessings,
Stephen