CHOICE may be a mere illusion. FREE WILL a trick of the mind's ego

Terry

Things are what they are.

Everything acts according to its nature.

Nothing escapes its own nature.

We cannot be other than what we are and our "choices" follow our nature.

Consequently, can we not say correctly that free choice is merely our ignorance of the fact that all our actions and choices are predetermined by our nature?

1. If you are offered either a handful of dog poop or a cold Dove bar---is your "choice" really much of a choice? Why? Why not?

2. Offer a heterosexual male a night with a hot chick or a hot dude...is the outcome really "choice"? Why? Why not?

If we fully knew what we are inside our seeming choices might appear more inevitable.

Some people have what is called a "danger" gene whereby they are thrillseekers.

Type A personalities selectively dominate in their social interactions.

The decisions, actions, "choices" made by these persons simply follow their personality type and genetic predispositions.

In nature itself, one thing follows the other as a consequence.

A boulder shaken loose from a mountain top "chooses" to fall downward.

Smoke from a forest fire "chooses" to waft upward.

The oceans "choose" to move toward the moon as the earth revolves causing the tides.

The things that happen are the result of events following their own natural bent.

Is free choice an illusion?

We don't speak of actions in Nature as "choices" do we? Yet, we speak of our own actions that way.

Mathematicians will tell you there really is no such things as "random".

You cannot program a computer to generate an actual "random" number.

There is always an algorithm underlying it.

Randomness is our ignorance of the nature of inevitable consequent events.

Just because you don't know what you'll pick to wear tomorrow does that mean you have a choice?

You've already pre-selected the clothes you have on hand, haven't you? The clothes you buy are the direct result of

your inner-directed urges which filter out one set of possibilities from another.

Aren't your selections the result of how you react to things in a given circumstance? Isn't a REaction different from an ACTion?

Is there a difference?

In short: IS FREE CHOICE AN ILLUSION?

You don't will yourself to breathe.

You don't will yourself to become hungry or crave this or that food.

You don't will yourself to experience sexual urges.

You don't willfully select the blink rate of your eyes or the constancy of your heartbeat.

You take all these actions as INVOLUNTARY "givens." You think nothing of them "choice" wise.

Your fears, your attractions and repulsions and your ambitious yearnings stem from something deeper inside of you than

mere neutral choices from some giant menu in the brain.

CAN WE NOT SAY OUR "CHOICES" are fictional constructs?

Are we not confusing our creative imagination with actual selective decision making?

Could it not be our mind's ego at work creating the false illusion WE ARE IN CONTROL of our "choices"?

If we FULLY KNEW everything that makes us tick, would we not see our day to day activity (except in the case of accidents) as foreordained

to certain extent?

What PER CENT of your "choices" are really and truly FREE choices??

ILTSF

Fascinating...I don't have much to say right now, but I wanted to post, so that I remember to come back and read any comments.

notverylikely

Everything acts according to its nature.

Nothing escapes its own nature.

Ah, I knew something was wrong and I figured out what it was. You are correlating the physical laws of the universe (i.e., gravity) and instinct with human choices and the ability to make decisions.

Your original premise, that a rock has a much choice whether or not to fall as I do when deciding what I want for lunch, is flawed. Therefore, any conclusion you draw from it is at least highly suspect.

THE GLADIATOR

This is the old determinism versus free will debate.

The issue of whether we can accurately predict how a person will act in a given circumstance give all knowledge of his genetically and cultural background is an interesting one. It is impossible to know for sure. The only sure evidence we can rely on is reality. Our own history is a part of reality – that is to say it took place – in reality.

If each of us were again, in the same place, at the same time, with the same set of emotions as we had then, we would act in the same way again. We know that because when we were in that known situation, with the set of emotions we had at that moment that is how we did act.

Unless one of the variables was changed we would be ourselves - identically. How could we be anything else? We may act differently now because we have changed and we have the benefit of hindsight.

We may condemn the way that someone has acted because we would have acted differently, but we are not them. If we were we would act the same. We know this because when that person was put in that situation with his/her emotional state and cultural/genetically history, the result was a product of the reality of those factors coming together.

I know this suggests that we have no freewill and are therefore not responsible for our actions but reality is difficult to ignore. I like to think I am responsible for my actions but it could be that I am just a part of the life’s random game and my actions are all an unavoidable part of my conditioning and genes. Why do I post these thoughts? I had no choice.

OUTLAW

The clothes you buy are the direct result of

your inner-directed urges which filter out one set of possibilities from another......Terry

A person can`t do that unless they`ve made a choice..

...................... ...OUTLAW

JWoods

I thought we settled the mechanistic clockwork pre-determinism idea back there in that time travel thread -

(via quantum indeterminancies)

Anyway, I also thought you were going with Melissa Scott now, not the Calvinists?

Judge Dread

"Choice" is a choice.

Everything else is random.

Judge Dread

Elsewhere

I do suspect this might be true.

Think about it: A con man can you make you sincerely believe you chose to do something, when in reality it really was not your choice... it was his.

We all make different decisions based on what mood we might happen to be in at any given moment. This is further evidence that we are subject to the influence of arbitrary feelings and thought processes.

As an example: If we are in a good mood and something annoying happens that causes us to make a choice, we will likely have a calm response. However, if we happen to already be irritated and in a bad mood, when the same annoying thing happens we will have a more erratic and emotional response.

We *think* it is our choice, but in reality there are many unknown forces at work that influence our though process.

notverylikely

We *think* it is our choice, but in reality there are many unknown forces at work that influence our though process.

But we can also decide that we don't like the way we act in an irritated mood and decide to take steps to change that behavior.

Mad Sweeney

If we FULLY KNEW everything that makes us tick, would we not see our day to day activity (except in the case of accidents) as foreordained to certain extent?

Putting it that way (use of terms such as "if" and "to certain extent" and "would we not see"), yes, absolutely.

But decisions are based on probabilities more than absolutes. There may have been a 98% chance that I'd wear the clothes I'm wearing today, but if so, there was always that 2% chance that I'd have somehow ended up wearing something else. I believe there are currents in the universe that we flow along with for the most part, but there are always those black swan events that make life interesting.

And speaking of making life interesting, if the premise is correct that there is barely any free will, if any at all, wouldn't that make the "ignorance is bliss" cliche' appropriate? Isn't it the fact, then, that we DON'T know what's going to happen, that makes life interesting for many?

CHOICE may be a mere illusion. FREE WILL a trick of the mind's ego

Share this