On Knowing What's Important...

by undercover 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • undercover
    undercover

    The thread about the Mexico issue got me to thinking. I started to post this there and then realized it was a bit of a hi-jack, so I'm starting a new thread. In that other thread, it was mentioned that JWs are finding ways of blaming Ray Franz for some of the embarrassing things that has plagued the WTS. A couple of quotes...

    attributed those issues to the "apostates" at headquarters intentionally mistranslating information for the friends in Mexico. And directly implicated Ray Franz as head of the writing department as the primary source.
    Apparently Ray Franz is responsible for the 1975 teaching too according to one of my JW friends. It seems he is being used as a useful scapegoat for all the problem doctrines.

    This is why you don't use what Mr. Franz, or any other ex-JW or anti-JW, has published as your sole argument against the WT organization. His books/experiences are great tools in learning the truth about the Society and its misdealings. But they're resource material, not the Holy Writings of Apostacy. The same is true of any other ex-JW who has published works.

    While we may need these resources as we work our way through the issues of having been a JW, in the end we have to know in ourselves why we're leaving and why we don't anything to do with the religion or their parent organization.

    JWs...and other Christian types will quote Bible verse after Bible verse as if that's the end-all be-all to the argument, not realizing that the person they're talking to maybe doesn't even accept the Bible as Holy. The same can be said of qouting Mr. Franz or any other ex-JW who has exposed the WTS as a fraudulent society. JWs aren't going to accept anything they say. They're apostate after all.

    A side note: Please - dont' take this as a negative against Ray Franz. I have the utmost respect for him, but I know in the end, my decisions have to be based on what I know and what I've learned and experienced. His book helped, but I have to be able to stand up for myself and fight my own battles.

    It's always been important to me to figure out which scandals or doctrines are the most damning and concentrate on knowing the facts and details about them. The thing is...there are so many fucked up things about this religion, it's easy to get overwhelmed by all the issues. Forget all of them. Concentrate on the ones that bug you the most...the ones that prove to you that this isn't the true religion.

    If and when you decide to discuss the issue with anyone you can speak as expert on these few issues...and that's all you need. You don't have to prove them wrong on every thing that has been brought to question about them. They claim to be the one, true religion with it's Governing Body as God's Channel on Earth. Well... let them prove it. If I have a short list of things that proves to me that those are false statements and claims, then the burden of proof falls back on them. I don't need to keep harping on scandal after scandal or false teaching after false teaching.

    If that person refuses to accept our detailed and well-informed position, nothing quoted by anyone else is going to change their mind. As long as we know the truth of the matter, then we can move on, confident in our knowledge and where we're going and who we are.

    In the end, that's all that matters...

  • lepermessiah
    lepermessiah

    Great Points!!

    I know sometimes I feel like I am trying to build this air-tight case against the organization to defend my course of action, but its too much to try to consider all at once.

    The important thing right now is that I know how I feel about the organization - I have many, many reasons for my disgust and disillusionment with it..

    Right now I am taking one major issue at a time and picking it apart for MY sake. If someone wants to discuss it with me, thats fine.

    If that person refuses to accept our detailed and well-informed position, nothing quoted by anyone else is going to change their mind.

    I am learning that more and more......like so many have pointed out, you could bring tons of ammo to an argument with a JW and they wouldnt consider any of it. It reminds me of the OJ case.....damning evidence, but so many still think he was framed and innocent, just the the WTBS has been slandered and "framed" by apostates......

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Absolutely right.

    The trouble is, a die hard dub won't accept anything as evidence against the borg, not even older borg publications or the bible!! Until someone wakes up and is ready to exit they will continue to rationalise their position.

  • nugget
    nugget

    I agree that you need to be robust in research and not take things on face value. Although CofC paid a big part in my decision to plan an exit stratgey from the org it was not the sole source. There is ample evidence from secular sources, newspaper reports and other respected scholarly works to build a solid body of evidence against the society. It is necessary since as a fader I need to be able to speak about doctrine using non controversial sources.

    What I do find sad is the high level of cognitive dissonance visible every time you talk to a witness. Being recently on the other side of the fence I fully understand it but sometimes logical argument however well researched is impossible.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Yes, jws have to see it and experience things themselves; that's why I think the lack of love in the organization opens many minds to doctrinal questions as well. After awhile, you can't make excuses for the organization any more and you begin to see that God is not in their equation.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Good points above, I think JW's are like climate-change deniers, whatever evidence you present ,they just will not accept it. there is a saying too that "Opinion changes with the cheers and boos of the home team"

    I think Witnesses, in their little bubble of a World, feel that they are with the "right-thinkers", and I, for instance ,am just a lone Apostate, they reject whatever I say, and then go back and are re-assured by their fellow fans in the "home team".

    I have been using Undercover's method for some time, just one question, (usually ,why would Jesus choose them in 1919?) and they can come back to me when they like. None have come back yet, but their cognitive dissonance must be at screaming level.

    You cannot un-Dumb a DumbDub until they are ready.

    Love

    Wobble

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