How JT and "Lady C" will DA themselves

by JT 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • mustang
    mustang

    JT,

    The best DA letters basically say, 'He!! No, I ain't gonna go (without litigation, like you want me to!!!)'.

    Anyway, on old H2O, DocBob posted this one. I have talked to DocBob and he agrees with this being re-posted periodically. Here goes a really decent one, posted below:

    I understand there is some work in progress on 'variations on the theme'.

    Blue's thoughts are real good, too. While you are at it, you could consider posting a Legal Notice in the local paper that says 'I STILL BELONG'... (Thought suggested by a Billy Joel song.)

    Mustang

    NOTE: Anything that I write on this posting (and prior posting's on 'JW.com' and the previous H2O boards) is (or was) intended as an expression of both personal Religious Freedom and Freedom of Speech, as guaranteed in the Constitution of the United States under the "free exercise", as well as "freedom of speech" clauses.

    START QUOTE

    *DA Letter w/Legalese

    Posted by Doc Bob [docbob] on September 26, 2000 at 18:42:27
    {Ya22knR/iw4GgUr52RakFCBZCmlcxk}:

    In Reply to: DA Letter w/Legalese posted by hypatia on September 25, 2000 at 18:10:20:

    Hi Hypatia,
    I wrote most of the body of this a few years ago thinking it might come in handy someday. I actually sent it to my local body of elders after they invited me to meet with them to face charges of apostacy last December. I have not heard from then since. I have not heard that any announcements have been made regarding me.
    Bob

    ======================================
    I have decided that I will not formally disassociate myself from the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or from Jehovah’s Witnesses in general. I came to this decision for several reasons. First, there is nothing I see in the Bible that calls for a formal letter of disassociation in my situation, or any other. It seems to me that the provision of formal disassociation is a matter of convenience for the legal department of the Watchtower Society rather than serv-ing any real religious purpose. It allows people to be pigeon-holed into nice neat little categories rather than dealing with the real issues involved. Also, I have no problem with the P________ Congregation or its members. My disagree-ment is with certain actions, policies, teachings and writings contained in pub-lications that are produced and in oral teachings promulgated either individu-ally or collectively by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and the International Bible Students Association.

    The purpose of this letter is to clarify certain matters and to secure and pro-tect what I consider basic human rights in dealing with agents of the multi-national, multi-billion dollar Watchtower corporations. Since you have asked me to appear before a judicial committee to face charges of apostacy, there are a few things that I must ask for and which I feel must be clarified before I will even consider meeting with a judicial committee.

    1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.

    2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.

    3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Govern-ing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial committee as acting in the their behalf.

    5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.

    6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future de-sist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or or-ganization of which I am not a member.

    7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.

    8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibili-ties involved in the judicial process.

    9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.

    10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meet-ings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me :

    12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid un-less it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jeho-vah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corpora-tions, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.

    16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of
    Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal com-mittee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will in-sist that a new appeal committee be formed.

    18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibili-ties involved in the appeal process.

    19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, spe-cifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid un-less it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jeho-vah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corpora-tions, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone act-ing in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the P________ Con-gregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I also understand that it is necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching;
    to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encour-age by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me dif-ferently from any other person that is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mort-gage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal action.

    25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privi-leged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privi-lege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, writ-ten or oral, public or private.

    I fully realize that you may be unwilling or that the Watchtower corporations will not allow you to comply with the preceding. I respectfully await your writ-ten response.

    Follow Ups:

    **DA Letter w/Legalese AF 22:19:05 9/26/0 (0)

    END QUOTE

  • Michael3000
    Michael3000

    JT, Man - you are one of the best posters here! That was funny as shit!

    I was thinking about tha "closure" thang and the legal aspects (as far as protecting myself) when I sent my DA in '98. I had already "disappeared myself" in '93, and no one had ever called or come looking for me - I shoulda just let it go. But I sent in that damn DA letter! Now, after being on the 'Net for a few years, I kinda regret it. I played by their rules - something I no longer do.

    Anyway, great post, Bro. HAVE to try to hook up w/you & the wifey next time I'm down your way. I was JUST down in B'more & DC for Christmas with my fiancee's family. Titally forgot to buzz you before I left NYC. But, next time...

    "Any day spent NOT knocking on doors is a good day!"

  • BobsGirl
    BobsGirl

    This thread was the most fun I've had all day ......sigh ...

    BobsGirl

    "May the work of your hands be a sign of gratitude and reverence to the human condition." - Mahatma Gandhi

  • teejay
    teejay

    "classic" JT.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    JT,

    I already had my comment in mind, and then I discovered that COMF said exactly what I wanted to say:

    YOU ROCK, big guy!

    Farkel

  • noidea
    noidea

    JT,

    Priceless !!!!!!!!!

  • minimus
    minimus

    Please check out this thread about disassociation.

    EXCELLENT POINTS BY JT!!!

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Bumpity bump bump

  • minimus
    minimus

    I wish JT would make another appearance.

  • Scully
    Scully

    I miss JT. He's a hoot to talk to on the phone too.

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