Tell me why MY VIEW of Christianity is wrong

by Terry 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    I sometimes think the standard Christian view of things is this.

    Mankind, like the people in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, are stranded waiting on aid and God flys over and sees them on the roof waving and holding up signs, but, He can't really do as much as He would like to.

    He has some stopgap aid here and there for a few, but, mostly everybody just has to do the best they can to hang on.

    Like Federal Aid or the National Guard---Jesus is coming! Hang on! Jesus is coming!

    Would that be accurate?

    I'll tell you why I say the above.

    Jesus arrived and his disciples and Apostles didn't really understand much of anything He said. After all, he spoke in parables and didn't hang around very long. Jesus never instructed any of his followers to write down what he was saying. Neither did Jesus himself write anything down.

    He commanded them to preach. That is an oral tradition.

    The Jews who believed in a Messianic Jesus watched him die and heard promises that he'd come back and finish the job later. But, that was "Sooner" later, in their belief. They were wrong. He never returned.

    Now everybody, Gentile and Jew, really really expected Jesus would return QUICKLY to finish his work.

    Jesus did NOT return quickly. I repeat: Jesus never returned!

    People such as Jehovah's Witnesses jumped the shark and gave us a Jesus who is back---but, who does nothing!

    From the death of Jesus, and later his apostles, the message was passed around. People with different belief systems adopted THEIR VERSION of what they heard. When they believed---(this is important) they believed THEIR VERSION.

    As far as I know--and you can correct me if I'm wrong---the ONLY person in the New Testament who was directly instructed to write anything down was John in the "vision" in Revelation.

    The oral message spread, certainly. But, Judaism was almost wiped out in 70 a.d. At least it had a huge setback from which, I'd argue, it has never recovered.

    This is where we really have a terrible problem for Christians at large today.

    Who was shepherding the diverse group of believers?

    If you say Jerusalem, well, Jerusalem wasn't instructing Paul what to preach. Jerusalem and Paul were sniffing each other out. Paul had a DIRECT contact (if you believe his vision story) with the Lord and Jerusalem did not.

    Everybody had Holy Spirit (or so we are given to understand). But, Holy Spirit didn't stave off what happened to Christianity as far as the ROMANIZING effect of pagan rulership under Constantine.

    My point?

    If God were running the show through Jesus and the Holy Spirit simply by giving each christian believer a tingling sensation of special contact---it hasn't prevented the corruption of the identity of Christianity with Catholicism.

    Splinter groups opposed by an enormous Catholic monolith with the power of Rome behind it doesn't speak well for God's organizational strengths!

    If God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus could only barely manage a rag-tag insurgency of martyrs and squabbling heretics it doesn't speak well for THE KINGDOM OF GOD, now does it?

    Where in the scriptures is there a command to make a Bible to straighten things out? It was oral tradition and oral teaching and preaching and not the written commands and documentary bastion of carefully preserved orthodoxy which Christianity embraced in the beginning.

    This leaves us with a GIANT, GAPING HOLE logic-wise.

    1.If God communicates with Christians directly by Holy Spirit--what do you need a bible for?

    2.If God communicates with Christianity by Church, then why did the Catholic Church drown out the thousand factions of congregational disunity?

    3.If God communicates with Christianity by magisterium, tradition and scripture--then why wasn't the Catholic Church kept pure of pagan corruption and political whoremongering?

    4.If God communicates with Christianity by Bible alone---why did the original autograph uncorrupt texts vanish suspiciously into a void only to be replaced over and over and over again by layers of "translation" opinion in which the scribes and copyists shaped the contents to fit pre-conceived ideas?

    5.Any word (like "Christian") which can mean anything really means nothing. Christians may agree on general Creed statements---but--they do not embrace one another in the spirit of "that they have love among themselves" as is abundantly demonstrated by sectarian polemic.

    The black and white fact of Christianity is that Christians disagree with each other's beliefs about hundreds of issues which tear them apart.

    It doesn't seem to matter whether there is a Trinity or not when it comes to the split in the Baptist convention, does it?

    What really is the unity in Christianity that differs from the disunity among--say, Democrats with Democrats and Republicans with Republicans?

    It is the same story whether secular or religious: HARDCORE FUNDAMENTALISTS are always at odds with SOFTSHELL PROGRESSIVES.

    The rest is rhetoric and jockeying for position in pitting one group against the other.

    Discussion at the upper levels of religion and politics is always rhetoric aimed at framing the other guy's position in the worst possible light.

    PRO-LIFE vs WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE. Take that one, for a good example. You have holy spirit accepting, trinitarian agreeing, Bible loving christians on both sides of that terrible issue, don't you?

    Has the Holy Spirit or the Bible done anything to keep Christians from shaking their fist at other Christians on such issues?

    I think not!

    The proof is in the taste of the pudding.

    The arguments I hear and read from Christians from diverse factions are pretty much all Pre-Enlightenment arguments without a shred of practical logic to them.

    Christians seem to believe all over the map whatever seems right to them without including the other Christians who think they're full of crap.

    Christains are Pre-Enlightenment "thinkers" in a Post-Enlightenment world.

    Science is a lie, for example, of the Devil!

    One Christian calls another christian "wrong" and views them as unstable, immoral and doomed. Each, however, is convinced beyond all reasonable persuasion that HE has preserved fundamental doctrine inside of his own heart and head!

    Christians are suspicious of each other and are quick to condemn you, me or themselves.

    As long as they can clutch their bible in their tight little fist and gain comfort all the bad guys are soon gonna die at Armageddon (with themselves safe and secure in Luxury class) all is well.

    If I'm full of hot air here please explain to me where I'm going astray.

  • aSphereisnotaCircle
    aSphereisnotaCircle

    Oh you just hate god and don't want to live by his principles!

    Your just being negative!

    (those are my best JW comebacks, sorry, I know their pathetic)

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Well stated Terry.

    Christians loving to cry 'persecution', when they bring it upon themselves with pious suggestion that rational people are the slaves of corruption or the Devil himself. They fly about nipping at their own tails in circular reason. All along they point to a single document to 'support' the conjecture they bear.

    I prefer fact over 'belief'. If Marconi, Edison, Tesla, Einstein, had subscribed to 'belief' instead of intellectual/rational experiments/facts to devise solutions to real problems, they would have gone down in history with the likes of Russell and Joseph Smith and Jim Jones.

    Jeff

  • Terry
    Terry

    I use to view "God" as the richest dude in the big city with all the right connections who travels first class in the lap of luxury who eats at the finest restaurants and who gets the best seats at the arena for all the top sporting events--BUT WHO always seemed to be upset with me because I wouldn't let him borrow a hundred bucks for His tip for the valet. His kid got picked on by bullies and messed over---but, now he heads up his Dad's multi-billion dollar factories and corporations but we still have to feel sorry for him and his treatment by white trash way back in the day.

    I say I "use to view "God" that way.

    Now, I don't have any idea at all what this "God" thing even means.

    And worse still: I don't think you* do either.......

    But, I'm willing to be wrong.

    *anybody

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    How long were you a JW Terry?

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Terry, your view of Christ's kingdom (Christendom or Christianity) is right on the mark.

    You, however, missed those who are quietly leading Christlike lives, loving and caring for all - regardless of religious affiliation.

    The striking thing about this is that the Savior foretold this would happen.

    Matthew 13:36 Jesus dismissed the congregation and went into the house. His disciples came in and said, "Explain to us that story of the thistles in the field."

    37 -39 So he explained. "The farmer who sows the pure seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the pure seeds are subjects of the kingdom, the thistles are subjects of the Devil, and the enemy who sows them is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the age, the curtain of history. The harvest hands are angels.

    40 -43 "The picture of thistles pulled up and burned is a scene from the final act. The Son of Man will send his angels, weed out the thistles from his kingdom, pitch them in the trash, and be done with them. They are going to complain to high heaven, but nobody is going to listen. At the same time, ripe, holy lives will mature and adorn the kingdom of their Father.

    "Are you listening to this? Really listening? MSG

    Are we listening?

    Sylvia

  • Terry
    Terry

    Snowbird:

    There are good people everywhere doing the best they can. Most of them aren't Christians. Why and how can I say that?

    Christians are not even a third of the world's population.

    There are conscientious people who have never heard of religion.

    There are good atheists. There are moral and ethical agnostics. There are sweet satanists, too.

    Religion is a symptom of a disease, in my view. We paste "doctrine" and "theology" on top of our best/worst instincts. But, at core, we are just humanity. We have our good days and our bad.

    The whole "God" idea is practically useless except as a hook to hang a hope upon. Just my opinion, mind you.

    PS Sacrament0: I was a JW from about 1959 to 1978. I was baptised in '63 and became sort of inactive after 1975 but still attended meetings.

    I was a "recovering" JW since my disfellowshipping in 1979.

    I got my mind back around 17 years ago.

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    Leave it to Sylvia to share her pearls of wisdom with us. (I have GOT to get me a copy of the Message Bible!)

    The Bible is a fascinating book, imo. I have gone through various stages with it. As a JW, I learned it cover to cover...the stories...the history...the scriptures...the various doctrinal interpretations...etc. Then other spiritual disciplines taught me other viewpoints and when I re-read the scriptures, I saw and heard new things. Personal meditation also unveils new ways of "seeing". Now, I see there are at least 3 levels of knowledge revealed in the Bible.

    Isn't it really all just an attempt to understand who we are, where we came from, who is leading us (humanity), and where we're going?

    Every so often, some charismatic individual rises up and captures the minds and hearts of the many. It is usually during times of difficulty and social unrest when people, seeing their world crumbling around them, feel there is a Greater Plan taking place and that that plan is being carried out behind the scenes using certain individuals. (Who knows? Maybe they're right. We really have had only about six to ten thousand years of written history to go by.) We are very very young....still infants actually. Religion provides one with a sense of "family", protection, security, "parental" guidance. It may be dysfunctional at times, but it's still "the family".

    I liked your example of the people in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. In the midst of fear and uncertainty, they climbed atop the roofs and held their arms upward looking for someone or something to save them. There were others, who, anticipated the flood, loaded up themselves and their families, independently took matters into their own hands, and got the hell out. They looked within for their "savior", not relying on some government agency or higher governmental power to be saved. ( The kingdom of God is within you.)

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Terry, since you spoke about YOUR VIEW of Christianity, it is Christians of whom I'm speaking.

    I know some non-theists who would put some Christians to shame!

    I'm tempted to say, "so-called Christians," but that is for the Master to judge.

    JO, that was a powerful post. Thank you so much for your thoughts.

    Sylvia

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    PS Sacrament0: I was a JW from about 1959 to 1978. I was baptised in '63 and became sort of inactive after 1975 but still attended meetings.
    I was a "recovering" JW since my disfellowshipping in 1979.
    I got my mind back around 17 years ago.

    It seems that the scars run deep...

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