Reading C of C

by startingover 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • Flip
    …and boring stories that deal with himself.

    The fact you’re even commenting on Crisis of Conscience as irrelevant material, belies the indication of a ruse on your part.

    However, I do agree with your above quote, I was rather disappointed Mr. Franz, a former member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses left out all of ‘Fredhalls’ more hilarious anecdotes.


  • Fredhall


    I always speak the truth.

  • AlanF

    You Know admitted:

    : I read it from cover to cover and thought it was a real yawner. Ray Franz is such a bore.

    In his 1948 novel Nineteen Eighty-Four George Orwell described the concept of doublethink as used by the ruling Party Ingsoc:

    "The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, crimestop. Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity. But stupidity is not enough. On the contrary, orthodoxy in the full sense demands a control over one's own mental processes as complete as that of a contortionist over his body." [Part 2, Ch. IX; pp. 212-13 hardcover; pp. 174-5 paperback]

    What this means is that when a bright boy like You Know comes upon information inimical to his Mommy, he pretends not to understand it or to be bored by it, and then, using the mind control so ingrained into JWs, forgets that he's pretending.


  • Fredhall


    You have to admit that Gerorge Orwell's novel sound a lot better than Ray Franz books.

  • startingover


    My anger went away when it was replaced by a need to find out the "real" truth. That need has opened up my mind so far it seems there's hardly anything I read or hear anymore that I don't stop to contemplate (and not immediately dismiss it as stupid because it doesn't go along with the current understanding as I did before). It might be different if my wife shared my views and was not the loyal dub she is. She just can't see what I see and I have a daily quest to deal with that. That is probably the most frustrating aspect of this whole thing.

    Bluesbrother's comments reminds me of when I first got the book. I ordered it through a book store and it took a couple of weeks to get it. I initially decided to read it because of reader comments contained on I didn't order it through them because I didn't want it delivered to the wrong hands. I started reading it when my wife was at a meeting, and I got far enough through it in those 2 hours to decide that I wasn't going to hide it and that I must share it with her. I was sitting in my favorite chair reading it when she came home. She asked me what I was reading and when I told her I will never forget the look on her face. It was the look that goes along with the gasp she let out. I told her this was unbelievable and that she should read it. She said she would never read it, absolutely not, and didn't want it in the house. Just like pornography she said.


    My friend had the same reaction you and I did to the Malawi stuff. He got so mad he called me and told me that now he felt the need to do something with his 16 year old son. His wife, freaking out over this entire situation and his goatee (isn't it interesting how most men grow hair on their face almost immediately when they figure out it's all BS) has been nagging the son to go to meetings. He's been dragging himself there with her and my friend hasn't been saying anything because the elders have been asking the kid if his dad has been talking to him. My friend has always felt the need of family over org. so he now feels he must act. I told him not to do anything in haste. I personally have been able to just slip away with no hastle and I hope he can do the same since he has his entire family and friend network involved as I do. Time will tell.

    The Revelation book- OH NO! It continues to amaze me how I could sit through those studies and not see what was going on. I guess it's because I was always thinking about what I was going to do when I go home. I just had a flashback about the "Babylon the Great has fallen" book studies. Remember the separate little book containing the questions?

    S O

  • Joyzabel

    Welcome to the board, Startingover

    I sent my brother, raised jw, exbethelite, and a copy of coc for him to read after I told him about the UN thing. He claimed he read "most" of it and didn't have anything to say. I was blown away by his lack of response. He didn't even know that just having the book in his possession would get him df'd. I know he is having trouble in his personal life, but now I really think it goes deeper to some psychological problems. He is totally ignoring what coc has to say. He is the first person I have run across with that response. I, on the other hand, hit all the emotions, but am glad I read it. J2bf

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    If you are a really brainwashed, zombied out JW, you could probably read Crisis of Conscience and not be negatively disposed toward the WTS. However, I think it likely that most active Witnesses wouldn't touch the book with their hands for fear that they might encounter a demon. Demon encounters by JW's are quite common.

  • Inquiry

    hey kitty (fred)*pets the kitty* Don't bite now, bad kitty....:)

    glad you read C of C fred... even though the materials used in his book are what you and many others claim to be copywrited, much of it Ray Franz himself was involved in producing.... so much for copywrite...(why is it that when people hear the word copywrite they think that it makes the material inadmissable as evidence...?????) it doesn't detract one iota from what Franz was trying to convey... The WT is just a company run by company men who are selling the product of everlasting life in a paradise earth for the paltry price of your time, your money and your freedom, and in some cases your sanity.... His expose on how the org works compared with how the rank and file view the org is at the very least intriguing... I read C of C and was very glad I did.... I learned a very important lesson, but not after wasting 10 years of my life in the useless persuit of working for the WT gratis... not to mention what my son went through...
    I am more than happy to be free from the snares of the WT grey suits... and so is my son... I found Ray's books to be a treasure... and I am glad I found them...
    *pets the kitty* now that's a good cat.... :)

  • KenUK

    Six years ago helped me my exit - in fact just found the book in my cabinet and I'll read it again.

    Franz struck me as a genuine humble man... my view...

  • ThiChi

    Well when I read COC, I just thought that it was a man-made religion, no more, no less, at least they still had the doctrines right!! Can’t ask for more!!!

    However, it was Ray’s second book, “In Search of Christian Freedom”that really sealed it for me. Blood, house to house, the misuse of disfellowshipping, etc.,. The doctrines were lacking too!

    “Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Send my credentials to the House of Detention, I got some friends inside.....” The Doors

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