by zarco 58 Replies latest jw friends
:Just because Bizzy said something that Marx also said doesn't make her Marxist. That is the same (il)logic as saying that Hitler believed that the Earth was round like a ball therefore everyone who believes the same must be a Nazi.
Bad analogy. The evils of capitalism is a cornerstone of Marxism and all other socialist "isms." It is not some small irrelevant coincidence as you imply.
Farkel
Farkel, in all fairness to Bizzy Bee, I really don't think she knows yet that she's a Marxist. She may be in denial.
Pavlov would have loved you two.
Farkel retorts:
"Bad analogy. The evils of capitalism is a cornerstone of Marxism and all other socialist "isms." It is not some small irrelevant coincidence as you imply."
Bad argument. It is irrelevant how big or small the issue (coincidence) is and as far as my analogy was concerned a ball shaped Earth versus a round flat one is not a small matter.
What about certain Anarchisms? Do they fall into your black and white dualistic vision of the world, namely SOCIALISM VERSUS CAPITALISM? How sad that you cannot conceive of third or fourth distinct alternatives.
villabolo
:Bad argument. It is irrelevant how big or small the issue (coincidence) is and as far as my analogy was concerned a ball shaped Earth versus a round flat one is not a small matter.
By the way, THIS is the comment I made my comments on:
:That is the same (il)logic as saying that Hitler believed that the Earth was round like a ball therefore everyone who believes the same must be a Nazi.
Horseshit. Relevance is everything in any analogy.
Stalin was a human.
Mother Teresa was a human.
Stalin was evil.
Therefore, Mother Teresa was evil.
See what I mean?
-------
Marx thought capitalism is evil.
Bizzybee thinks capitalism is evil.
The evils of capitalism was a fundamental pillar of Marx's teachings.
Farkel says Bizzybee was starting to sound like a Marxist.
People cry FOWL!
Ridiculous!
Farkel
Farkel, you just shot yourself in the foot.
villabolo
Just tell me Farkel, do you believe that Capitalism is God's gift to Humanity?
villabolo
Whether it's true or not, the Witnesses are right about this. We need a new system of things. With everything that's going on, it's almost ridiculous to talk about world conditions improving.
Farkel, if putting labels on people helps you to make sense of a big confusing world, knock yourself out.
Just Google "Ponzi capitalism" and you will find that my "Marxian" comment puts me in very astute company.
Here's a sample:
http://artvoice.com/issues/v7n52/getting_a_grip
A Ponzi con goes like this: Some reputable crook sells an investment instrument that promises attractive returns. As new folks invest, the crook pays off previous investors, who actually see the promised returns on their investment. This continues on as new cohorts of investors buy technically worthless stocks or shares, the purchase of which fund payoffs to earlier investors. The actual stock or investment has no concrete value. It is not backed by a tangible item such as gold, real estate, or even a used car or a big lollipop. Nada. Nothing. It’s only value lies in the fact that people, for whatever reason, believe it has value. This belief creates a supply of fresh capital to keep the operation running while its crook-in-chief siphons his cut off the top. The early investors make out okay, as long as they cash out. The later investors, those mindlessly and greedily following the herd, are f-----d.
I’m confused because I’ve also just described the global economy. The dollars in your pocket are what economists call “fiat currency.” While US currency was once redeemable for, and hence backed up by, a fixed amount of gold or silver, that system finally collapsed under the Nixon administration, which was essentially bankrupted by the costs of the Vietnam War. The US could no longer afford to back up its money with gold or silver since it had taken to printing money on an as-needed basis, essentially taxing the population by playing the margins on an inflating currency that it could print at will.
At the time, we had become so used to trading these paper slips for real goods that we forgot how this habit started. Words like “silver certificate” and any other indication of redemption value disappeared from our currency. We left “In God We Trust” on the bills, not because the masters of our economy necessarily trusted God but because it was good marketing for what essentially was a Ponzi investment. What, you got a problem with God?
BB (still trying to find where I said capitalism was "evil.")
BizzyBee says this
So far, we do not have a model that demonstrates the success of the infinite growth necessary to support the capitalist ponzi scheme that has brought the global economy to its knees.
Which I would take to mean just what it says. We have not seen success from this model. Which is the current one, and has been so for about 30 years. It relies on ever increasing growth. Or continual new investors to shuffle the money 'round. Leaving less and less actual "product" to invest in. It's the investors under you that will allow you to see your profits. What happens when new investors stop investing? The Wiki definition
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulentinvestment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned.
The only real divergence in this definition, is the word "fraudulent". Because it's now perfectly legal, and has been since Reagan began deregulating the banking industry, and subsequent administrations took it further.
Farkel quotes her here
bizzybee,
:to support the capitalist ponzi scheme that has brought the global economy to its knees
Leaving off half of the quote, probably because he was drooling over the prospect of getting in an accusation of Marxism, or possibly just to see himself talk.
I'm sure Bizzy would agree, we have seen a successful model of Capitalism in the last century. With proper regulations and a dash of Socialism, it's swell!
Why here's Alan Greenspan himself, he says it so well.
