What Josephus Really Wrote about the 70 Years

by Ultimate Reality 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Ultimate Reality

  There have been some partial quotations of Josephus on this board recently in relation to how he explained the '70 Years'.

  In the interests of scholastic honesty and so that his words are not taken out of context, here are some relevant passages with their context. You might ask yourself, do the 70 Years (as spoken by the Prophet Jeremiah) begin with the destruction of the temple or before the destruction of the temple? Was the temple destroyed during a 70 year period or was it desolated at the beginning the 70 year period described by Jeremiah?

  Whatever Josephus says, he is not the final authority. However, the Society and others have a habit of using certain quotes from him out of context.

  Josephus Antiquities 10.7.3:

  3. Now when Zedekiah had preserved the league of mutual assistance he had made with the Babylonians for eight years, he brake it, and revolted to the Egyptians, in hopes, by their assistance, of overcoming the Babylonians. When the king of Babylon knew this, he made war against him: he laid his country waste, and took his fortified towns, and came to the city Jerusalem itself to besiege it. But when the king of Egypt heard what circumstances Zedekiah his ally was in, he took a great army with him, and came into Judea, as if he would raise the siege; upon which the king of Babylon departed from Jerusalem, and met the Egyptians, and joined battle with them, and beat them; and when he had put them to flight, he pursued them, and drove them out of all Syria. Now as soon as the king of Babylon was departed from Jerusalem, the false prophets deceived Zedekiah, and said that the king of Babylon would not any more make war against him or his people, nor remove them out of their own country into Babylon; and that those then in captivity would return, with all those vessels of the temple of which the king of Babylon had despoiled that temple. But Jeremiah came among them, and prophesied what contradicted those predictions, and what proved to be true, that they did ill, and deluded the king; that the Egyptians would be of no advantage to them, but that the king of Babylon would renew the war against Jerusalem, and besiege it again, and would destroy the people by famine, and carry away those that remained into captivity, and would take away what they had as spoils, and would carry off those riches that were in the temple; nay, that, besides this, he would burn it, and utterly overthrow the city, and that they should serve him and his posterity seventy years; that then the Persians and the Medes should put an end to their servitude, and overthrow the Babylonians; "and that we shall be dismissed, and return to this land, and rebuild the temple, and restore Jerusalem." When Jeremiah said this, the greater part believed him; but the rulers, and those that were wicked, despised him, as one disordered in his senses. Now he had resolved to go elsewhere, to his own country, which was called Anathoth, and was twenty furlongs distant from Jerusalem; and as he was going, one of the rulers met him, and seized upon him, and accused him falsely, as though he were going as a deserter to the Babylonians; but Jeremiah said that he accused him falsely, and added, that he was only going to his own country; but the other would not believe him, but seized upon him, and led him away to the rulers, and laid an accusation against him, under whom he endured all sorts of torments and tortures, and was reserved to be punished; and this was the condition he was in for some time, while he suffered what I have already described unjustly.
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  Ultimate Reality

  Josephus Antiquities 11.1.1:

  IN the first year of the reign of Cyrus which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity. And these things God did afford them; for he stirred up the mind of Cyrus, and made him write this throughout all Asia: "Thus saith Cyrus the king: Since God Almighty hath appointed me to be king of the habitable earth, I believe that he is that God which the nation of the Israelites worship; for indeed he foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build him a house at Jerusalem, in the country of Judea."

  Against Apion:

  19. I will now relate what hath been written concerning us in the Chaldean histories, which records have a great agreement with our books in oilier things also. Berosus shall be witness to what I say: he was by birth a Chaldean, well known by the learned, on account of his publication of the Chaldean books of astronomy and philosophy among the Greeks. This Berosus, therefore, following the most ancient records of that nation, gives us a history of the deluge of waters that then happened, and of the destruction of mankind thereby, and agrees with Moses's narration thereof. He also gives us an account of that ark wherein Noah, the origin of our race, was preserved, when it was brought to the highest part of the Armenian mountains; after which he gives us a catalogue of the posterity of Noah, and adds the years of their chronology, and at length comes down to Nabolassar, who was king of Babylon, and of the Chaldeans. And when he was relating the acts of this king, he describes to us how he sent his son Nabuchodonosor against Egypt, and against our land, with a great army, upon his being informed that they had revolted from him; and how, by that means, he subdued them all, and set our temple that was at Jerusalem on fire; nay, and removed our people entirely out of their own country, and transferred them to Babylon; when it so happened that our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus king of Persia. He then says, "That this Babylonian king conquered Egypt, and Syria, and Phoenicia, and Arabia, and exceeded in his exploits all that had reigned before him in Babylon and Chaldea." A little after which Berosus subjoins what follows in his History of Ancient Times. I will set down Berosus's own accounts, which are these: "When Nabolassar, father of Nabuchodonosor, heard that the governor whom he had set over Egypt, and over the parts of Celesyria and Phoenicia, had revolted from him, he was not able to bear it any longer; but committing certain parts of his army to his son Nabuchodonosor, who was then but young, he sent him against the rebel: Nabuchodonosor joined battle with him, and conquered him, and reduced the country under his dominion again. Now it so fell out that his father Nabolassar fell into a distemper at this time, and died in the city of Babylon, after he had reigned twenty-nine years. But as he understood, in a little time, that his father Nabolassar was dead, he set the affairs of Egypt and the other countries in order, and committed the captives he had taken from the Jews, and Phoenicians, and Syrians, and of the nations belonging to Egypt, to some of his friends, that they might conduct that part of the forces that had on heavy armor, with the rest of his baggage, to Babylonia; while he went in
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  Ultimate Reality

  haste, having but a few with him, over the desert to Babylon; whither, when he was come, he found the public affairs had been managed by the Chaldeans, and that the principal person among them had preserved the kingdom for him. Accordingly, he now entirely obtained all his father's dominions. He then came, and ordered the captives to be placed as colonies in the most proper places of Babylonia; but for himself, he adorned the temple of Belus, and the other temples, after an elegant manner, out of the spoils he had taken in this war. He also rebuilt the old city, and added another to it on the outside, and so far restored Babylon, that none who should besiege it afterwards might have it in their power to divert the river, so as to facilitate an entrance into it; and this he did by building three walls about the inner city, and three about the outer. Some of these walls he built of burnt brick and bitumen, and some of brick only. So when he had thus fortified the city with walls, after an excellent manner, and had adorned the gates magnificently, he added a new palace to that which his father had dwelt in, and this close by it also, and that more eminent in its height, and in its great splendor. It would perhaps require too long a narration, if any one were to describe it. However, as prodigiously large and as magnificent as it was, it was finished in fifteen days. Now in this palace he erected very high walks, supported by stone pillars, and by planting what was called a pensile paradise, and replenishing it with all sorts of trees, he rendered the prospect an exact resemblance of a mountainous country. This he did to please his queen, because she had been brought up in Media, and was fond of a mountainous situation."

  Against Apion (partially 20 and 21):

  Hereupon Cyrus took Babylon, and gave order that the outer walls of the city should be demolished, because the city had proved very troublesome to him, and cost him a great deal of pains to take it. He then marched away to Borsippus, to besiege Nabonnedus; but as Nabonnedus did not sustain the siege, but delivered himself into his hands, he was at first kindly used by Cyrus, who gave him Carmania, as a place for him to inhabit in, but sent him out of Babylonia. Accordingly Nabonnedus spent the rest of his time in that country, and there died."

  21. These accounts agree with the true histories in our books; for in them it is written that Nebuchadnezzar, in the eighteenth year of his reign, laid our temple desolate, and so it lay in that state of obscurity for fifty years; but that in the second year of the reign of Cyrus its foundations were laid, and it was finished again in the second year of Darius. I will now add the records of the Phoenicians; for it will not be superfluous to give the reader demonstrations more than enough on this occasion.
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  JWoods

  Who cares? By that I mean - who (who is not heavily invested into Adventist and JW numerology) could possibly care?

  Please again see post #2 and beyond on the DARIUS THE MEDE thread for the continuation. For now, we must simply ask - unless you buy into obscure JW/Adventist numerology...

  Who cares?
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  PSacramento

  I posted them in one of Lars's threads, but as with such things, it got "lost in the noise" it seems, LOL !
  Thanks for the repost.
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  PSacramento

  Please again see post #2 and beyond on the DARIUS THE MEDE thread for the continuation. For now, we must simply ask - unless you buy into obscure JW/Adventist numerology...

  Who cares?

  Well, that is a valid point, LOL !
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  PSacramento

  To me the crucial elements are:

  I will now relate what hath been written concerning us in the Chaldean histories, which records have a great agreement with our books in oilier things also. Berosus shall be witness to what I say: he was by birth a Chaldean, well known by the learned, on account of his publication of the Chaldean books of astronomy and philosophy among the Greeks. This Berosus, therefore, following the most ancient records of that nation,

  Above Joe makes it clear that he is going one what he has read from Berosus, so what was written was Berosus's view.

  and here:

  21. These accounts agree with the true histories in our books; for in them it is written that Nebuchadnezzar, in the eighteenth year of his reign, laid our temple desolate, and so it lay in that state of obscurity for fifty years; but that in the second year of the reign of Cyrus its foundations were laid, and it was finished again in the second year of Darius.

  Here Joe makes a statement that is HIS OWN, that according to OUR BOOKS ( the Jewish books), that the temple lay desolate for 50 years.

  The conflict?

  In Joe's own words, The true histories in our books it was written that Neb, in his 18 year, laid the temple desolate and it remained that way for 50 years.

  So we have it seems 2 seperate timelines, oen to do with the total event and one to do with what happened to the temple in specififc.

  OR, that Joe was making it clear that the timeline for the desolation of the temple , according to the jewish books, was different than Berosus wrote.

  And if we take into account what was written before, that seems more plausable.
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  Larsinger58

  PSACRAMENTO So we have it seems 2 seperate timelines, oen to do with the total event and one to do with what happened to the temple in specififc.

  OR, that Joe was making it clear that the timeline for the desolation of the temple , according to the jewish books, was different than Berosus wrote.

  I agree, there does seem to be some confusion, especially when in Against Apion we have the fifty-year statement AND the seventy-year statement regarding the desolation.

  and so it lay in that state of obscurity for fifty years; (1.19)

  it so happened that our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus king of Persia. (1.21)

  This is either a contradiction or we're missing a subtle double reference. 50 years for the temple, 70 years for something else. Interesting theory.

  I've resigned to settling that it is a subtle reference to the two rulerships of Cyrus which has a difference of 20 years. Cyrus ruled for 20 years over the Persian part of the empire before he became king over Babylon and started counting his rulership years over again from year 1. So that is what works for me as far as the double reference of a 20-year desolation and 70-year desolation. 54 years is mentioned in the context of 1.21

  "Under his reign Cyrus became king of Persia." So that the whole interval is fifty-four years besides three months.."

  So I think the 54 years is a cryptic clue to the contradiction. That is, from the fall of Jerusalem until the 1st of Cyrus is a desolation period of exactly 74 years. But from the fall of Jerusalem to when Cyrus first became king over Persia it is 54 years. In other words desolation for 74 years from the fall of Jerusalem until Cyrus became king in Babylon, but 54 years to when Cyrus became king over the Persian Part of the empire. This allows both statements to be true depending upon which rule of Cyrus you reference, which is either 54 years or 74 years. Anyway, it's a 20-year difference between the 70 years and the 50 years.

  So I sort of agree with you. You can apply both the 70 and the 50 years to different concepts.

  LS
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  Larsinger58

  Remember, the specific 70 years is from the time the "people go off their land" which is the last deportation, year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar. That is truly when the LAND was desolate. The temple was destroyed 4 years earlier, in year 19.

  When the Babylonian records were revised during the Persian Period though, besides removing 2 years from the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, the new Babylonian timeline condensed some events during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar. It starts with year 1 where the deportation of Daniel and the conflict with pharaoh Necho are condensed into year 1. Per the Bible, Daniel is deported in the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar.

  From that point on though, the Babylonian Chronicle and the Bible vary by 1 year. The deportation of Jehoiachin occurs in year 7 per the chronicle but year 8 per the Bible. So Josephus is already influenced by the revised chronology when he references the fall of Jerusalem in year 18 rather than in year 19. That one revision thus has translated in the fall of Jerusalem being spread over year 18/19, and Josephus for claiming contrary to scripture that Jeusalem fell in year 18 vs 19. But it doesn't matter for the 70 and 50-year references since those are counted from year 23, the last deportation.

  So this seems to be Josephus doing his best to deal with the double chronology, the Biblical chronology and the revised secular chronology which was perfected by Xenophon near the end of the reign of Artaxerxes II, one of the revisions being the removal of 26 years of NB chronology that got added to the Persian kingships. The 50-year reference seems to be the focus of those who think the revised timeline is real, which might have been the genius of Josephus, but at the same time is a technically accurate reference for the desolation period from year 23 to the 1st year of Cyrus when he first became king over Persia, 20 years before becoming king over Babylon, which is a 70-year period.

  We're discussing the details, we may as well know ALL the issues. It's complex.

  LS
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  logic

  This is just my opion, but It seems clear to me, that 70 years refers to the totality and 50 years just for the

  the temple. I try not to read between the lines. But I have learned to never assume I'm correct. I think

  joesephus would have realized that he had two different time lines there. Or even in his time someone

  would have pointed it out to him.