Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough 204 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough
    Jesus is the first creation and the last from God himself. Hence 'First and last'. And Jesus is the Son of God making him born or created by God; making Jesus not God but the Son of God. Saying Jesus is God is a lie. On Judjement Day you can ask Jesus sitting at God's right hand if he is God and then you will find your truth.

    It's obvious you haven't read any of the verses on this post. From Christendom's point of view, your posts on this board are mostly made up out of whole cloth. You're inventing theories and your pseudo-intellectual arrogance is making you look silly. The Word is not a creation, and was not created or begotten. There is far too much evidence that the Word was not created but is eternal.

    “first-born” or “first-born of” is not limited to a member of a group of creatures but has broad application. According to Strong and Vine’s, “firstborn” (Greek protokos) with reference to the preexistent Christ is used “of His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over, creation, not in the sense of being the first to be born. It is used of superiority of position (cf. Ex 4:22; Deut 21:16, 17)” (ibid., 218).

    (Prototokos) Firstborn is used (1) of Christ as born of the Virgin Mary (Mt 1:25; Lk 2:7), (2) of His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over, creation, not in the sense of being the first to be born. It is used of superiority of position (cf. Ex 4:22; Deut 21:16, 17). (3) Chronologically, the four passages relating to Christ as firstborn, first begotten, may be set forth thusly: (3a) Col 1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the firstborn before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective, as v. 16 makes clear); (3b) Col 1:18 and Rev 1:5, in reference to His resurrection; (3c) Rom 8:29, His being firstborn among those living by faith alone in God the Father; (3d) Heb 1:6, first begotten, stresses His superior position, His preeminence over all; His second advent in contrast to His first advent, at His birth, being implied. (Strong and Vine’s, 218)

    As such, the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong in their interpretation of “first-born” at Colossians 1:15, 16, and Trinitarian Christians are correct in saying “that the ‘first-born’ here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished. Thus, Christ could be understood to be, not part of creation, but the most distinguished in relation to those whom he created,” (Reasoning, 408). This is particularly true in light of the unequivocal language of Colossians 1:17 which says “He is before all things” (RSV).


  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough
    Saying Jesus is God is a lie. On Judjement Day you can ask Jesus sitting at God's right hand if he is God and then you will find your truth.

    It's not a lie because you haven't the slightest clue about the nature of Christ which is hypostatic or what Christianity teaches. You're calling 2 billion Christians liars and have deluded yourself into believing some special insight into Scripture and claim a higher intellect than the great theologians who have preceded you. You need to get down off your high horse, kid, because you ain't that smart and though your heart might be in the right place, your brain never followed. Too much gas.

    In the Book of Revelation Jesus can be identified as the Almighty and the “Alpha and the Omega,” titles used to identify God. Even if the Jehovah's Witnesses were correct in stating that Jesus is never specifically called the Almighty, which they claim is a title reserved for God (Reasoning, 414), that title can readily be ascribed to Jesus by logically piecing together selected verses.

    For instance, both Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18 and God as the Alpha and Omega at Revelation 22:13 are referred to as “the First and the Last.” Therefore, because Jesus and the Almighty are both “the First and the Last,“ Jesus must be the Almighty who is the Alpha and Omega.

    Also, the Alpha and the Omega (God) of Revelation 1:8 is identified as the Almighty, and because Jesus is also the Alpha and the Omega, Jesus is the Almighty, a title identifying Jehovah (Yahweh) at Genesis 17:1. Jesus was, and is, God. The logical train of thought is illustrated by quoting the actual verses.

    a) Jesus is the First and the Last: “Fear not, I am the First and the Last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.” (Revelation 1:17, 18)

    b) The Alpha and the Omega (God) is also the First and the last: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:12, 13)

    c) Therefore, Jesus must also be the Alpha and Omega, God.

    d) The Alpha and the Omega is the Almighty: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

    e) Therefore, not only is Jesus the Alpha and Omega but also the Almighty, all powerful, omnipotent.


  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    And another reason:

    The Catholic New American Bible at John 1:18 makes an emphatic declaration that the Son is God: “No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.”

    The only Son, God: while the vast majority of later textual witnesses have another reading, “the Son, the only one” or “the only Son,” the translation above follows the best and earliest manuscripts, monogenes theos, but takes the first term to mean not just “Only One,” but to include a filial relationship with the Father, as at Lk 9, 38 (“only child”) or Heb 11, 17 (“only son”) and as translated at Jn 1, 14. The Logos is thus “only Son,” and God, but not Father/God. (NAB notes 1, 18)


  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    And another reason why the JWs are wrong teaching that the Word is just a created angel who became a man and reverted to being an angel.

    This “kingship” or throne of power and authority lasts forever and ever:

    [B]ut as to the Son, “Your throne, O God,
    is forever and ever…, (Hebrews 1:8 Green’s Literal Translation)

    Daniel 7:14, which the Jehovah's Witnesses cite in support of Christ’s kingship and dominion, or rule and authority, also makes it very clear that it lasts forever and shall never be destroyed:

    His dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Green’s Literal Translation)

    But even the Jehovah's Witnesses don’t believe that. Their version of Jesus Christ, the angel, has a very limited, narrow role to play in salvation history and for all practical purposes He is dispensed with after the millennial reign. He is not regarded by them as the eternal king of an eternal kingdom, but reverts back to being an angel on the sidelines. They write:

    Since sin and death are to be completely removed from earth’s inhabitants, this also brings to an end the need for Jesus’ serving as “a helper with the Father” in the sense of providing propitiation for the sins of imperfect humans. (1Jo 2:1, 2) That brings mankind back to the original status enjoyed when the perfect man Adam was in Eden. Adam, while perfect, needed no one to stand between him and God to make propitiation. So, too, at the termination of Jesus’ Thousand Year Reign rule, earth’s inhabitants will be both in position and under responsibility to answer for their course of action before Jehovah God as the Supreme Judge, without recourse to anyone as legal intermediary, or helper. (Insight, 170)

    When God … raised Jesus Christ from the dead to spirit life in heaven … the heavenly Jerusalem received him into the midst of her organization of angelic sons in heaven, but as the Chief One among them, in the position of Archangel. (M. Alfs, Concepts of Father, Son and Holy Spirit [Minneapolis, Minnesota, Old Theology Book House, 1984], 71 n. 152) (Concepts)

    The Jehovah's Witnesses should probably take a closer look at Hebrews 7:25: “Consequently He is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them” RSV). This refers to the “intercession of the exalted Jesus, not the sequel to His completed sacrifice but His eternal presence in heaven, cf. Romans 8:34 (NAB notes Hebrews 7,25).


  • Vanderhoven7


Share this