Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  garyneal

  Fast forward now to how I view religion before I met my witness wife and got involved in her religion.

  My world view was much broader, I realized that I do not know everything, and therefore did not have all the answers. You have to remember that the IFB church believe, much like the WT, in the plain old black and white view of either it is of God or of Satan. I was beginning to break away from that world view. I still believed in God and believed that my salvation was eternally secure in Christ. Frankly, I felt like I had a better relationship with Him than I ever did before and frankly ever had since and prayed often. While not attending any church regularly, I enjoyed experiencing the different types of worship styles of the different churches that my old IFB church shunned. I began attending a Church of God that is known for its out of order tongue speaking and prophecying, in part, because my old pastor (who I use to refer to as 'Pastor Limbaugh' due to the similarities between him and Rush) actually pointed out that church and told me they practice false worship. In fact, to hear 'Preacher Rush' talk, all other churches are false except the good ole IFB (sound familiar?).

  My view on religion and God is difficult to describe (I guess). I still have faith in Christ and believe in the Christian religion, but I realize that had I been born in another part of the world where another religion was dominant, I probably would be something else. I don't like legalistic religions and hence why I find it difficult to be a witness today (even before I knew about all of the errors it committed in its past). At best, I would be a 'maverick' witness who would challenge the authoritarian structure and probably would end up a disfellowshipped witness.
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  garyneal

  But what about God and Jesus? I recall when I was going soul winning (an IFB version of field service) with my pastor, he told me that God can be proven simply by looking at nature and at man. At the time, I agreed because I was being a good obedient little Christian who is fairly new to the faith and frankly I was convinced that this was really true at the time. Plus, as an aside, he had a cute daughter who always played the piano but I never worked up the nerve to ask her out.

  Today, however, I believe that man and nature at best prove the existence of a god. It takes faith to say that it is Jehovah / Yahweh and His Son Christ Jesus because they cannot be proven empiracally. The only account of them is in the Bible and proving their existence using the Bible invites question begging. I realized that for all I know, I could be following a myth and that if anything, the true religion the thuggie occult. Still though, I figured that if all of this (Christianity) is true (and I believe it is) then I am safe in following it and if it is false, then I lost nothing. Captive of a concept perhaps but in actuality being a Christian and believing in God does give me lots of comfort and to quote Ghandi, it "...satisfies my soul, fills my whole being...." Since Ghandi said this of hinduism, I can imagine a witness saying this of the WT religion as well. I know my wife frequently runs to their publications for comfort and I can see how happy she is when she is at the elder's house (I actually told her one time that it was her sanctuary).

  As a Christian, I know I am commanded to tell others about Christ but I find myself bristling over the idea that I have to tell people that their belief system is wrong when they seem quite content in their faith. Never-the-less, since I have been under their (witnesses) brainwashing for the last five years and have been told on numerous occasions that the beliefs I held were wrong. So when I did my research on them, I felt an obligation to point out the errors I found in them. If anything to at least vindicate some of the beliefs I had but also to help them if they are unsure of some things too. I know my wife has frequently said that she would celebrate the holidays if she did not believe that God was going to destroy her for it.
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  zagor

  She's just testing you mate. Ignore it. Its really not about any of those arguments, you gotta see what subcommunication is. And what it is in this case is bacically this 'you hurt my feelings by leaving the real man in my life - J.' Its like living with someone who is infatuated with an ideal image of lets say a cartoon character or alike. You are basically dealing with someone who has to mature before you can talk to them on the same frequency. It is hard to face the fact that you somehow failed to notice it before but it is true. So just smile to her arguments and tell her she is not seriously intersted in the truth of anything otherwise she would not be jumping all over you or from one question to another. She will need to prove it to you then one way or another that she wants to know the truth. Only then after actually having her attention will you be able to lay down your arguments.
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  garyneal

  Back when I was an undergrad in college, my philosophy professor flat out told the class that Adam and Eve were a myth. There were certainly shudders in the classroom but we at least knew that there was no way to actually prove it to be a fact (at least not empiracally) outside of the Bible. The irony here is that he also teaches a class on the old testament in a christian college. Sometime after I graduated from college, he wrote a letter to the editor concerning the appointment of a gay clergyman in the episcopalian church where he came out in support for him. This cause an uproar in the local christian community and resulted in the southern baptists withdrawing their funding from college. He still works at the college the last time I checked and they even came out in defense of his letter while not necessarily agreeing with his viewpoint.

  The professor sent me a copy of his letter and if anyone here is interested in reading it, I will ask his permission and publish it here.

  Shortly after taking that class, I began to wonder since we Christians are considered the body of Christ then perhaps Christ is alive simply because we believe. If everyone stops believing, Christ is no more. However, I know that this not only contradicts the Bible, but also puts Christ in a position of being man made and places Him too much into a humanistic perspective. I frankly don't like believing that simply because I feel that Christ is much greater than anything we can ever hope to maintain. This humbles us and makes us realize that none of us are better than anyone else in God's eyes and therefore should not think we are better than anyone else. This also puts the judgement of who's bad and who's good squarely where it belongs, in Christ Himself.

  Whenever the WT tries to describe Jehovah and Jesus, they always seem to do it in humanistic and three-dimensional ways, boxing them in the humanistic plain of existence. I could never subscribe to that because I would hate to think that this 'plain of existence' is all there is. They may have paradise earth where they can pet lions and tigers all day but I would rather have the glorified body that Christ had that can move between Heaven and Earth like He does.

  My old philisophy professor was quoted saying in the beginning of his old testament class, "If anyone loses faith because of what is being taught in this class, then you never had faith to start with."
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  PSacramento

  Don't under estimate how these things can influence you later on and make you believe things that aren't true or have no basis in fact.

  I valid point, but my upbringing made me question things, not accepted them at "face value", one of the reasons I never became a JW even after many "bible studies".

  Yet, it was these question that brought me closer to God, even though I was not searching for God per say and was, to an extent, looking to "disbelieve" in God.

  I think we have to realize that we are more than the sum of our parts and that two people can take the same road but have different journeys.
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  dgp

  Gary Neal, you're not alone in this. I belong to a very different tradition maybe, but I had to go through the same stages you have, and I also had a professor who sort of opened up my eyes to different aspects of having faith. Only he was a theologian.

  I have gone further than you have, in a sense. I am very happy with the idea that very likely there is not any God out there.

  Have you tried reading the Bible with critical eyes? Checking what is real in it? Like, for example, reading that the Book of Daniel, so important to Christians, was written in three languages, or at least two, and then in different times. I understand that the first chapter is written in Hebrew, then chapters 2 to 7 are written in Aramaic, and then chapters 8-12 are written in Hebrew again. Chapters 12 on are written in Greek, which is why the Protestants and the JWs consider them a fake. The book isn't always written in the first person. Aramaic became a language in common use when Hebrew ceased to be one, and that does make me raise an eyebrow about the validity of the book as a whole, not just the texts in Greek. And then, apparently the book was not written at the time it supposedly was written.

  If you read your bible, whatever version of it, no one ever tells you that the book was written in different languages. You have the impression that it was the product of one man, never several. Isn't that a way to conceal an important fact?

  If you find this kind of things, and lose some of your faith, is that irrational? Or, on the contrary, does it appear easy to you to disregard these facts and go on believing blindly?