ADAM GROWS OLD

by Titus 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Titus
    Titus

    (NOTE: please, read this post, because I put much effort in simply writing of it, since English is not my native language. Please, forgive me for my bad-english)

    Hello! I am an active JW and serving as an MS in my congregation. But I have some doubts about my beliefs. I want to hear some serious comments about this matter.

    According to WT doctrine, 6000 yrs from Adam’s creation has passed in 1975. OK, all of us know that! This was very popular issue among JWs in 1960s and 1970s. I know that too. But I have to tell you this: even though almost all members of GB believed that the Millennium will start immediately after October 1975, some older brothers in my congregation didn’t believe it. I know them personally. They said it wasn’t so unimportant as it is today, but also it wasn’t so important as it seems today! Brother who was the only elder in my congregation at that time, simply rejected the diagram of “creative days”, and that was his decision. Other brothers accepted that, and he said that that’s their problem. Of course, they were all disappointed in 1975, but he wasn’t. He still serves as an elder in my congregation.

    But there is another question which arouses in my mind: GB NEVER CHANGED OR REJECTED THE DOCTRINE OF “CREATIVE DAYS”. Last time they mentioned it was in w87 1/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers:

    “A study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week. (Revelation 20:6; Genesis 2:2, 3) Based on this reasoning, the entire creative week would be 49,000 years long.”

    I tried to discuss this matter with some brothers and sisters in various congregations, but I have to be careful with them, since they are afraid of questioning their beliefs. I really have to be very cautious with that. According to WT doctrine, “time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time. The pronouncement at the end of the sixth day, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was verygood,” proves that the beginning of the great seventh day of the creative week did not wait until after Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the Garden of Eden.” (w68 8/15 p. 500 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?)

    The doctrine is not changed! IS NOT CHANGED! There is no any ray of “new light” on that doctrine. WT says that “the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, was a comparatively short period of time”. I agree, since Peter says “one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day” (2 Peter 3:8).

    That “a comparatively short period of time” today (2009) is 34 years! (2009 – 1975 = 34) Have you noticed that? Adam was at least 34 years old when Eve was created! Can you imagine that? Bible says that “the man was calling the names of all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a complement of him” (Genesis 2:20). WT also says that “the first man, with his perfect mind and powers of observation, saw that in the bird and animal realm, there were male and female and that between them they reproduced their kind. But with the man himself, it was not then so. If this observation inclined him to have the thought of enjoying a companion, he found no suitable mate among any of the animal realm, not even among the apes.” (w89 8/1 p. 17 par. 8 Grand Human Prospects in a Paradise of Pleasantness). Did Adam “with his perfect mind and powers of observation” realize that he is alone after 34 years.

    The same WT continues: “Adam was not inclined to decide matters for himself and become impudent and ask God his Creator for a mate. It was fitting that the perfect man let the entire matter rest with God, for shortly afterward he found that God had drawn His own conclusions about the situation.” Again, did Creator wait 34 years to give him a mate? I can’t believe that! Every new year of this wicked system means that Adam “grows old” while he is waiting his “ish·shah” What do you think about that? I’d like to hear opinions of some active JWs, my fellow sisters and brothers!

    P.S. I am not an apostate. I don’t want to “bring my fellowman to ruin” (Proverbs 11:9). I am just a JW who has some doubts. So, “continue showing mercy to some that have doubts” (Jude 22).

    May Jehovah bless you!

  • acolytes
    acolytes

    Hi Titus

    Where in the bible does it say Adam was created perfect.(See the 2 topics I started on Adam today)

    If you read the Genesis account it says man was created in Gods image.(Look in the mirror and see your image)- After Adam ate of the fruit it says Adam became in Gods likeness-

    Was it better for Adam to be in Gods Image or likeness?

    From Genesis chapter 2 v4 The title God is replaced by Lord God. Why?

    When God had made Adam and Eve they were described by God as very God not perfect. (The reasons for this are qualified in a Post I started early today)

    I belive an apostate is someone who looses their belief in God. Loyalty to God and loyalty to a organisation are not the same thing. What is most important to you?

    Acolytes

  • Titus
    Titus

    Yea, Bible really says that Adam was created perfect. You should know that God created a man, not men. "The Rock, PERFECT is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he" (Deuteronomy 32:4)

    Also, I believe you know what Paul says about origin of imperfection in Romans 5:12, 19.

    Thank you Acolytes for your efforts, but this is not a question I asked.

    TNX

  • acolytes
    acolytes

    Hi TNX

    Whilst I may not have answerd your question it is important to note that on numerouse occassions in the watchtower literature you quoted it was stated Adam was created perfect.

    The scriptures you quoted to prove Adam was created perfect was based on Watchtowe interpretation. The watchtower could change their interpretation tommorrow and as Witnesses we would accept it.

    We belived Jehover would bring the Wicked system to an end before the generation of 1914 passed away. We belived Jehover promised it and we backed up our beliefs from scripture. But Jehover didnt promise it and the Bible made no such statement. YOU quoted Deuteronomy to me. Could I suggest you read Deuteronomy 18v20-

    I mention these points because if you wish to have your answer answerd to your satisfaction from the Bible, then you need to realise that the Bible does not always say what religiouse organisations claim it says.

    Acolytes

  • Titus
    Titus

    Deuteronomy 18:20-22

    “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true [at some appointed time], that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’

    (APOSTATE'S TRANSLATION, words in brackets added accidentaly).

    Does it mean that things JW preached about 1914, 1925 or 1975 will NEVER come true??? Come on, you can't say that this verses apply on Jehovah's Witnesses, can you? We preached WHAT will happen, and also WHEN will it happen. Only the WHEN issue didn't come true. But Deuteronomy says smtng else.

    Are you an active JW?

    TITUS

  • acolytes
    acolytes

    I would say up untill October 22 1995 the masthead in the Awake read.

    Why Awake is Published........Most importantly this magazine builds confidence in the CREATORS PROMISE of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that say the events of 1914 passes away".

    QUESTION. Did the Creator make that promise?

    QUESTION. Did the Watchtower leaders make that promise on Jehovers behalf?

    QUESTION. How could people convert to a Jehovers Witness if they didnt belive that promise?

    QUESTION How do you personally feal having deliverd that message to thousands of doors?

    Acolytes

  • Titus
    Titus

    QUESTION. Did the Creator make that promise?

    ANSWER: Yes. (Revelation 21:3,4; Psalm72:7)

    QUESTION. Did the Watchtower leaders make that promise on Jehovers behalf?

    ANSWER: No. They are not leaders. GB just said what Jehovah said in His Word. (Matthew 23:10; 24:14; 28:18-20...)

    QUESTION. How could people convert to a Jehovers Witness if they didnt belive that promise?

    ANSWER: Father draws people to Christ, not Gerrit Loesch or Fred Franz or Awake! magazine (John 6:44; Haggai 2:6,7)

    QUESTION How do you personally feal having deliverd that message to thousands of doors?

    ANSWER: (Luke 17:10)

    If you have to say smtng about the ISSUE, say that. Stop asking me as I am on cross-examination.

    TITUS

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    I don't think Adam was 34 years old according to the WT when Eve was created - someone here can look it up, but there are articles where it is stated that Adam and Eve were so and so old when Set was born, and their age is set alike. Something like that. So it would imply they were created within the same year. Whether that assumption is due to the writer not thinking enough over what he was writing, or it really is MEANT that way, it anyway is written like that.

  • Titus
    Titus

    Where? Can you show me that? I just found that there was “a comparatively short period of time” between creation of Adam and Eve.

  • acolytes
    acolytes

    Hi Titus

    I personally believe The creator never made the promise that was stated in the masthead of the awake.

    I believe that promise was made by the Watchtowe leaders .

    People could not convert to The WATCHTOWER if they didnt believe that promise. But I agree with you they could be drawn to a personal relationship with Jesus.

    Iam sorry you felt you were on cross examination. To answer my question. Personally I feal very sad having taught people things that I belived were from God but were only man made interpretations of scripture.

    Thankyou for putting up with what you felt was my interegation. Iam off shopping now. I hope your question is answerd more sattisfactory by more qualified posters.

    Acolytes

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