This topic was broached in another thread (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/184175/1/Please-help-re-objections-to-Thanksgiving) and I was interested in expanding more on it. I am no Bible scholar and view the Bible as - gasp - more of a guidebook than literal one, but my impression has always been that the worldy bunch involved non-Christians (personally I'd say non-religious ones, no offense anyone!)or pseudo religious ones that were unethical and/or immoral. What do you think?
What did the Bible mean re: worldliness?
"Worldly" might have a meaning in the Bible, Greenie, but the real concern is what meaning it is given to in the real world. "Worldly" usually means "not of my religion", hence despicable. In my view of things, the most unchristian and inhuman belief of all: thinking that God, Creator of all, despises those who, like the Chinese of centuries past, for example, never heard a word about the Bible. And God would be entirely to blame here, since it was He who supposedly chose the Jews, who were not that many, instead of, say, the Chinese, who have always been more numerous.
"Worldly" is the imaginary crutches that support "holier than thou" behaviors.
Yes, DGP, I am more inclusive than exclusive, myself, as in, "all good people go to heaven" instead of "all good [fill in the blank with the name of your religion or denomination] go to heaven" or paradise earth or wherever. Personally, I think the bible supports my view.
I have to disagree with dgp also. I love them all, whatever faith.
"Worldly" people are those of this world. My citizenship is heaven. I am there at the right hand of the Father already :)
Ephesians 2:6 (New International Version)
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus
Ephesians 2:19 (New International Version)
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household
Philippians 3:20 (New International Version)
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Worldy are those that have chosen to live outside the teachings of God (OT) and the teachings of Jesus (NT), it is those that made a conscious decision to NOT be part of "God's Kingdom".
Wordly would be atheists for example and those that do not believe in God because they have chosen that path.
For a collection of the scriptures about it, see 1/3rd down the page at the
It means to sin by not believing in God or being unethical. It doesn't mean
a ban of "things" (as in "offered to idols") per se or a ban on holidays or a
ban on being a civil service dentist or such.
Guys, I didn't make my definition quoting the Bible. I meant to say that, whatever the definition in the Bible, the USE of the term is what matters. And it is used to say that those who don't agree with your religion are meant to die, or burn in hell, or be treated as inferiors, or hated secretly... you get the point, I'm sure. Replace "worldly" with "infidel" and there you go, you have the Moslems. Replace "worldly" with "Gentile" and you have the Pharisees. Et cetera. All those who refuse to be part of God/Jehovah/Allah's Kingdoms.
Among the worldlies we can count, for example, the Native American Indians who refused to accept the Teachings of the Almighty, read to them in Spanish, a language they didn't understand, by an army of men who, by all traces, were about to kill them. Well, they refused to belong to the true Church, didn't they?
How many atrocities have been justified on the basis of religion? The basic concept is, "you're worldly, and I'm not".
For every extremist and zelot there are 1000's even millions of moderates, they just don't get the press.
While some christians hold that all those NOT part of the "christian world" but "wordly" will be destroyed, most would probably disagree with that, myself ebing one of them, why?
To me God is a God of love and understanding, certainly his son Jesus was liek that, but at the same time, as a christian I do also recognise that there may coem a time of judgement and on that day/time, those that do not believe will be judged along with those that THINK they believe and those that DO believe.
One can argue that those that believe incorrectly and choose that path may will be worse off than the "worldly" ones.
We don't knwo for sure but I believe this:
God and Jesus KNOW what is in our hearts and they KNOW what brings us to them and what pushes us away and we will be judged on that.
The person who has lost belief in God because of being manipulated and having their faith destroyed by an organization like the WT, will have their lack of faith judgeing accordingly, so will the ones who remain in an organization that has put themselves on equal ground with our lord and saviour.
For some it may be better to be "worldy" than to be part of something like the WT.
An unbiased outlook I recommend on the "hooray for us--bash them" syndrome:
Some people get 'centric when they perceive they're in a group and rationalize
"We're the good ones and others are crazy or stupid and cause all the trouble in
the world." They may do it over a belief or non-belief view, race, gender,
sexual orientation, nationality, age, income level, political party, etc.
They'll only be friendly to those of their own classification, walls of aliena-
tion go up, they distrust or even hate who's on the other side, and that's when
jets fly into skyscrapers, Stalin had people persecuted or killed, people got
burned at the stake, most ethnic groups when they 1st came to the US had high
crime rates, etc., till they assimilated, etc.
You've heard it said that nothing has caused more unnecessary hurt or death in
the world than religion." But I say this is a better overview:
Take the 'centric people that were on the offense in religious war, but not
those on defense or the believers who wouldn't take part in such a thing,
add the 'centric non-believers who persecuted or killed like Stalin, but not
those on defense or the non-believers who wouldn't take part in such a thing,
add those 'centric about race, etc., who lynched African Americans or threw
them off slave ships, regarding them as chattel, when the food got low, etc.,
but not those who wouldn't take part in such a thing,
and nothing has caused more unnecessary hurt or death in the world than people
who get too 'centric.
I think that focuses more wisely on the problem and doesn't mischaracterize a
lot of nice people.
The irony of the outlook that lumps it all on all the believers is that it's
the very sort of 'centric view that causes those problems.
PSacramento and Glenster, I completely agree with you, and DGP, I don't disagree with you, I think we're just making different points. I think PS and Glenster are right that the majority of Christians are probably more moderate, it's just the banshees that get all the press. Too bad for the moderates. Maybe I should start banging a drum or something.