Jesus turns water into wine...

by trueblue 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • PSacramento

    God voice, like Jesus, is very pesonal, although when Paul had his revelation the people with him HEARD Jesus's voice but didn't see what Paul saw.

    The RCC allows people to partkae of the Eucharist on a regular basis NOT for people to do that, though of course they can, but to allow all peoople with different schedules the opportunity to do so.

    The fact that partaking of the Lord's supper id only for the annointed in the JW's shows how far they have fallen from Jesus's teachings, the fact that they say Judas didn't partake, though itis clear in Luke that he did, also shows their lack of understanding about what the Last Supper truly is.

    The last supper is a way for all those that believe and have faith in our lord Jesus to partake of that solmen moment and to reknew their vows to Jesus as followers of his teachings, in many ways, the last supper is far more important than a Baptizim.

  • nelly136

    but there has been so many people that have taken turns before us taking a drink of fine wine and replacing it with water .

    washback! whenever i think of anyone sharing cans and bottles i cant help but think 'contaminated'

    couple of links you may or may not find interesting

  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    If Jesus was a perfect being why would he want others to get drunk on wine, why not healthy fruit juice so they could give it to the children.

    Doesn't sound like perfection to me, encouraging alcohol abuse.

    I blame this on poor parenting myself.

  • AGuest

    what I am thinking is that the eating of the bread or drinking from the rock mass, the cup of wine, etc. are symbols

    Yes, dear TrueBlue, and may you have peace! They symbolize the flesh and blood of our Lord. To literally eat his flesh and drink is blood would be a dishonorable act - it would demean the value of those by relegating them to mere food for the flesh... versus what they are: food for the SPIRIT!

    just as I think that the tree of knowlegde of good and bad and the garden of eden are also symbols of what are in and about our heads.

    Not quite. The "Tree" of Life... is Christ, the TRUE "Vine." John 15:1-6 The "Tree" of the Knowledge of Good and Bad... is the DESIRE to KNOW (as in intimately, by literal experience)... good... which is life... AND bad... which is death. Adham KNEW "good"... life. He was convinced, however, that he could also KNOW... literally and intimately... "bad. Death. Know it... and still live. Be LIKE God... KNOWING... good... AND bad. Only one had that knowledge, the MOST High God, who is the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Even His Son, Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, did not know good AND bad... yet. That did not occur until his death and resurrection in 30CE.

    I thought that there was a scripture saying something like our body is Gods temple

    Perhaps you're thinking of 1 Corinthians 3:16?

    you will need to bare with me a little as I did mention before that history is not one of my best subjects, and neither is reading. I have not read the bible but I think that's okay sense Jesus said to observe the pharisees.

    It is totally fine; nothing the bear with. And, yes, we are to observe the Pharisees and do what they SAY, but not as they DO. Better yet, we are to listen to the voice of our Lord, the Good/Fine Shepherd. John 10:1-5, 27; Matthew 17:5

    The JWs will not baptize me, and or I do not have the time to learn to kiss their behinds.

    This is a GOOD thing - LOL!

    So I do not believe that one needs to be baptized with water because Jesus can baptize with holy spirit and with fire, but the individual first need to have the right heart condition and believe that God does exist. I had a scripture that said something like God searches the heartand if that person does not believe God exsists then his hear is not in it, but I have lost that scripture.

    You are very close and there are many scriptures and verses as to God examining our heart... indeed, ones, including Christ himself, asking for his heart to be examined by God. Psalm 26:2 As for baptism, some needed to get both. For example, for those who were literally under the Old Law, water baptism represented their "death" as to their former "husband," the Old Law. They were doing a symbolic "cleansing" of the sins of their FLESH (which is what the Old Covenant is all about: the will and sins of the flesh), which reconstituted them as "virgins" in preparation for the "law" of their NEW "husband," Christ. This occurred before... or after... being baptized with holy spirit. Acts 10:44, 47; 19:1-6 Since the outpouring of holy spirit at Pentecost 30CE... and for those who were NOT under the Old Covenant... water baptism is irrelevant. We are no longer required to be "bound" to that "law." Thus, NOW... there is only ONE baptism... it is simply that baptism with "fire"... holy spirit. Ephesians 4:5 This is the baptism that cleanses now, because it has to do with the "law" of the SPIRIT... the will and sins of spirit... and not of the flesh (as with Israel and the Old Covenant).

    Also, please know that your reading and writing "skills" are just fine. Indeed, neither are required. The Holy One of Israel can speak to us regarding of whether we can read OR write, period. Regardless of whether we do either "well." So, absolutely nothing to worry about there.

    Again, I do not believe that there really was a Garden of Eden, how ever I may be wrong,

    Actually, there was... and still is. But it is NOT a garden made of, ummmm... green vegetation, as we know such. That was OUTSIDE the garden. It was/is a spiritual place created by the MOST Holy One of Israel in which He "planted" the "seed" of His free "wife," Jerusalem Above (Sarah). Including Christ, the Tree of Life, the FIRST one of that seed and the Woman's "male child." John 15:1; Revelation 12:1, 2, 5, 6 He "planted" the "seed" of His slave "wife," the earth (Hagar)... Adham... there in order for him (Adham) to hide and protect the rest of the free Woman's seed from its enemies in the spirit realm. It was to reside in Adham and his progeny (offspring/lineage)... until it could be fertilized ("germinated" and, thus, "generated") by GOD's "seed"... holy spirit.

    And there is a lot of symbolism, but the symbols ALL represent very REAL and TRUE things... which things are of the SPIRIT... but, again, very real. They ARE the reality. It is this realm... the physical universe... and the things in it... that is the "copy." Ecclesiastes 3:15; Hebrews 9:24 Because WE exist in the FLESH (with its blood), however, we PERCEIVE this realm... and the things in it... as "real." Sort of like the Matrix, if you've seen that. Sort of.

    Peace to you, dear Lillith!!

    I dont believe the bible to be the written word of god or any other 'holy book' for that matter... if salvation (returning to god upon our physical death) really depended on a book then imho we're all screwed!... if you REALLY want to know, then just ask HIM...

    WHOO-HOOO!! GOOD for you! You GOT it!

    it sounds too simple I know, but it does make a lot of sense...

    But isn't that the BEAUTY of it, dear Lillith? God is NOT some great "mystery"... as all those who claim to "know"... but don't... want you and me to believe! He is a simple FARMER. True, He is not a wimpy, scaredy-cat farmer, but really, that IS all that He is! He just happens to be a farmer... a man... that is a SPIRIT... versus a farmer... a man... of flesh with its blood. And knowing Him... having a relationship with Him... speaking with Him... obeying Him... pleasing Him... are all very SIMPLE! One word: Christ. You KNOW God... by KNOWING Christ. You have a relationship with God... by having a relationship with Christ. You SPEAK with God... by speaking with Christ. You OBEY God... by obeying Christ. You PLEASE God... by pleasing Christ. Simple. And how to you know how to do all of these things with Christ? Well, the EASIEST way... is to LISTEN... to Christ. If you cannot yet do that... then you can look to what is written ABOUT Christ... and start there. Hear HIM... and you hear God. See HIM... and you SEE... God. A-B-C. 1-2-3. Elementary, not rocket science.

    not too sure how I would react if he spoke back though

    You would be fine... and you would smile. Big time. HUGE smile. Because his voice is not scary. To the contrary, it is kind, soothing, peaceful, patient, loving.

    Now, SEEING him... as he truly IS... is another story altogether. It most certainly could be "moist towelette" time, if not worse. The prophets fainted dead out. Some even lost control of their bodily functions. I... almost had a heart attack. It was NOT what I was expecting... what I had been led to believe I would see... so that when I DID see him... I could not handle it. I had to close my eyes and beg him to stop. It took me MONTHS... literally MONTHS... of him asking, "Are you ready to see me again, child?" before I could say, "Okay, yes, Lord, let's do this." For months before that time, however, my answer was, "Forgive me, please, Lord, but no. Not yet, please. I am just not ready. I don't think I can take it, right now." Because truly... I thought I might actually die. Literally. The vision was SO... ummmm... frightful... that my body, my physical flesh... just could NOT handle it. It took me MONTHS to recover!

    That is no longer the case, though. Because he IS kind and loving, he began to reveal himself slowly. A little at time. And gave me time between revelations so that I could get a grasp on what I had seen so far and ready myself for what was next. All I can say is: he ain't pretty. Not even close to "attractive" paintings, drawings, and other depictions drummed up by earthling man. He is NOT an earthling man... nor does he look like one. When he returns and every eyes DOES see him... they will be startled. VERY much. If he startled humans when he appeared in the flesh... well, let's just say, we ain't seen NUTHIN', yet! Isaiah 52:15

    it could end up being moist towelette time

    Yep, could be... as regards to seeing him!

    I stopped trying to have an answer for everything a little while back - I don't need to know it all because how I walk my path and how another walks theirs are very different. With that came a lot of peace.

    GOOD for you, dear LouBelle (and the greatest of love and peace to you!). Love BUILDS up... while knowledge PUFFS up! I don't share what I do here because I need folks to think I "know" something. Truly, I don't know ANYTHING! That was one of the GREATEST revelations my Lord gave me: that I don't know jack. How... FREEING!! HE, though, knows ALL. And so, IF there are those "asking," he WILL answer.

    I do find it hard, though, to sit back and watch people LIE about God and Christ. They're lying on my Father and my Lord, folks who I KNOW are not like what people are saying. I can't do it. Even if it was someone I didn't know personally, but knew not to have done the things people are accusing them of... I would speak up. I would have to. "Bearing false witness" is something I just cannot bear, as I have seen it done SO many times... times when I could do nothing to stop it... not even speak.

    That is not the case here and people DESERVE the TRUTH. Not just those who are being spoken against, but those who are speaking! They, too, need to know that what they're saying about the MOST Holy One of Israel and His Son... are lies! Because if they KNEW them, they most probably wouldn't say the things they do! If they choose to listen to what my Lord gives me to post... fine. If they choose not to... fine. That is not my concern. My concern... is that the truth IS told. Whether they hear... or refrain.

    I don't need any book to live my life well.

    No one does, dear one. And I am SO glad YOU know that truth! May the day come when every human knows it!

    Don't know were to find that the other people that heard Gods voice when Jesus was baptized but they thought it was thunder.

    My understanding from my Lord, dear TrueBlue... is that those who had God's spirit (i.e., John) could discern the voice of the Most Holy One of Israel; those who didn't have such spirit... could not. But those with Saul also heard my Lord's voice when it stopped Saul on the way to Damascus.

    I think that we would not be able to handle hearing Gods voice until we reach perfection

    Actually, one CAN hear the voice of the MOST Holy One of Israel now, if it is granted to such one; however, it is a RARE thing (VERY rare!). John the Baptist heard it. The Apostle John heard it. Others have heard it. I have heard it. It is very brief... and very distinct from our Lord's. But it is His voice... and, again, the experience is extremely rare.

    after the one thousand year rein and until then we will have to communicate to God thru Jesus.

    The truth is that some will hear it as OF the 1,000 reign... from the beginning of that era... and from then on. Because they will have washed their robes in the Lamb's blood, and thus, be clean THEN. Being CLEAN... they will be able to hear ALL spirit voices.

    Adam and Eve could hear Gods voice and they were perfect.

    Yes. And it will be this way for those who belong to Christ... at the start of their 1,000-year reign with him.

    The fact that partaking of the Lord's supper id only for the annointed in the JW's shows how far they have fallen from Jesus's teachings, the fact that they say Judas didn't partake, though itis clear in Luke that he did, also shows their lack of understanding about what the Last Supper truly is.

    You are absolutely correct, dear PSacto (and peace to you!). The whole Judas not partaking was the "beginning of the end" for me. It is what prompted all of those JC meetings. Someone asked me about it... and I couldn't lie. They, in turn, told others and it got back to the "elders" that I was "teaching" something against the WT. And even though I showed them what it said "in the Bible," their position was that of the WTBTS' - that contrary to what Luke SAID (about tracing all things with ACCURACY and "writ[ing] them in LOGICAL ORDER")... Luke was not in order (see "Aid to Bible Understanding" and "Insight on the Scriptures").

    The last supper is a way for all those that believe and have faith in our lord Jesus to partake of that solmen moment and to reknew their vows to Jesus as followers of his teachings

    Yes, but it is MUCH more: it is how one shows one is IN UNION with Christ. It is the BLOOD that speaks... and when one partakes, one is "taking" Christ's "blood" into one. Which he replaces with HOLY SPIRIT. Thus, your blood and his blood... holy spirit, the same as with God... becomes ONE. We come to be in union with him, ONE spirit. HIS blood... then CLEANSES YOUR BLOOD ... and so THROUGH HIM... we come to be in union with God. John 6:56; 15:4-6 By means of this union... and cleansing... our SPIRITS... ARE PROTECTED FROM CONDEMNATION... and from the second death, which is destruction in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). Romans 8:1; Revelation 20:4, 6, 15; Matthew 10:28

    in many ways, the last supper is far more important than a Baptizim.

    In every way, dear PSacto. Because it is how we demonstrate our RATIFICATION of the NEW Covenant we have with the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. The Covenant is effective after those who agree to it are "sprinkled" with blood. It is how we demonstrate putting blood... on our DOORPOSTS... that is, the vessel of flesh that is our physical bodies... so that death passes OVER us. It is NOT by water baptism, reading the Bible, keeping the Law Covenant (or 10 Commandments), preaching, or simple faith that we are resurrected and/or live forever. It is by the WORD... that comes forth from God... the Tree of LIFE... the "leaves" of which are for the CURING (from sin) of the nations. Thus, Christ is recorded to have said:

    "I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. ... I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will liveforever."John 6:48-46

    THIS... is the TRUTH... that the WTBTS does NOT want its members to know! Why? Because THEY are not going in, so they "shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men," so as to prevent THEM from going in either! This is their most HEINOUS act and teaching... and SINGLE one that makes them even MORE "accountable to Gehenna"... than all the others... combined!

    Dearest Nelly... peace to you! Three words, if I may? Suck... it... up. Technically... and literally. "Sharks" never killed no one. If you're really worried about it... go first!

    Dearest HomeBody the All Mighty... may you, too have peace!

    If Jesus was a perfect being why would he want others to get drunk on wine, why not healthy fruit juice so they could give it to the children.

    Actually, the "wine" they drank really was grape juice! It wasn't processed/aged wine (i.e., "fine" wine) but "new" wine: juice recently from the vine. All "product of the vine" was called "wine" back then, whether it was "new" wine... or "fine" (aged) wine. The longer it sat around, the more it "fermented" and aged... and became "fine." Because they didn't have refrigeration, the juice would naturally "ferment" to a slight degree so as to have some alcohol content; thus it was "new." The alcohol content was minimal; however, if you drank enough of it, you could become drunk (like with cider).

    It really doesn't matter, though. For example, what is one is out of wine/juice AND has no money to buy any? What then? Then, one should use what one has. It is not the actual liquid that is the issue - it is what the issue represents! Thus, if one has to use a bread crust and WATER... so long as one is "clean" when they eat and drink (i.e., have cleansed the "inside" of the "cup" - rid the heart of hatred, jealousy, hypocrisy, etc.)... and one eats and drinks in FAITH (that such "emblems" DO represent the very flesh and blood of Christ, that by eating and drinking one IS coming into union with Christ, that he WILL give such one holy spirit, and such spirit WILL cleanse such one of his/her sins, and so such one WILL live forever... because even if one's flesh dies, one's spirit will NOT)... THEN one should eat... and drink! One is NOT "eating and drinking unworthily." 1 Corinthians 11:23-29

    Again, I bid you all peace... and ears to hear, if you wish it, when the Spirit and Bride say to YOU: "Come! Take life's water... the holy spirit of God, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... which spirit is HIS blood... which blood is poured our from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, my Lord and Master, the Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... FREE!"

    Your servant, and a slave of Christ,


  • LouBelle

    Aguest: yes I don't believe you share what you do because you need people to see things your way or even to agree with you. If people lie about Christ or misinterperate what he says - it comes out - it always does.

    I don't even have a need / desire to defend Christ either as I believe he can do that himself - I have grown warey of the nonsense people spew out and at the end of the day the truth will be known.

  • AGuest

    and the greatest of love and peace to you!

    It is true that our Lord can defend himself. FOr me, though, in addition to trying to be obedient on those occasions when he directs me to share something, it is also a matter of loyalty. For instance, if I were to come here and see a post discrediting you, I could say, "Well, it's not my problem; LouBelle will speak up if she wants to. She's a big girl and can defend herself... and I am tired of "fighting" with folks who don't want to hear me, anyway. If she doesn't speak up, why should I? Either she doesn't want to defend herself (and so why should I?)... or can't defend herself (and if she can't, how can I?). No, it's really not my problem."

    And I would be right, to some degree. BUT... I would not be loyal. For ME... as your FRIEND... your TRUE friend... I could not sit back and just let people say untrue or untowardly things about you. I can't do it for someone who is NOT a friend - I certainly can't do it for someone who is. For instance, someone might post/say: "I heard she was really tall and has size 11 feet!!" Or, "LouBelle doesn't really speak English; she really just has someone translate for her and then pretends that it's her own writing." Or "Oh, please, 'LouBelle' doesn't even really exist. 'She's' actually the alterego of some old, balding lady who wants people to THINK 'she' exists." You get my drift.

    But say I had met you, personally. Face to face. AFTER... we had talked some time on the phone. And let's say that as a result, I came to KNOW you. Then, I, Shelby, could not just sit back and let people say such things. I am simply not made that way. And while, yes, it might become "tiresome" to HAVE to defend you... I would never grow tired doing so. In my mind and heart, it is those who are speaking inaccurately who make me "tired" (they should BOTHER to get to KNOW you... rather than speculate about what you are, are not, do, did, don't do, and will or won't do). YOU, however, would never become a burden. Because of (1) my LOVE for you... and (2) it is what I would want YOU... to do for ME.

    It is the same for me with regard to our Heavenly Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and of our Lord, His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy Spirit. I want THEM to show their love for ME... to defend ME... and thus, be "loyal" as to ME... as to who and what I am... and what is true and NOT true about ME... before ALL creation. And so, I am loyal to them. I know them... and I love them. They are "worthy" of my love... and my loyalty... and so I have NO problem... speaking up for him. 1 Chronicles 29:10-17; Psalm 78:1-8

    I would do the same for you... and anyone. I do it in my regular life. People don't always like it. One example is some years ago I had a co-worker, a pretty gruff white guy, who drank one whiskey with a beer chaser during lunch and smoked like a choo-choo train. He was former military, so... Anyway, he and I would meet often, without the knowledge of our superiors, in order to trade "war" stories, compare notes, and just generally support each other. We both managed very large low-income housing projects... and some days weren't so "fun." We each had gang violence, drugs, domestic violence, child abuse/abandonment, and heavy crime to deal with... along with residents who were elderly, disabled, unemployed, etc. You name it, the "problems" ran the gamut. We got through it, however, together. He had my back and I had his. If he needed to take a day off, I covered his property; if I needed it, he covered mine. We did this on our own, without our superiors being involved. And we were the two MOST successful managers in the entire company. Both of us received kudos, awards, etc.

    Then, one day, one of his residents, a black woman... who I had a very good relationship with... complained to the local HUD office about him. He had refused a request she made (one I would have also refused) and she filed a discrimination complaint against him. Just so happen that, in the course of the investigation, the HUD representatives came to my property to do an annual inspection there. Now, I didn't know about the investigation; my co-worker had never said a word. Even though his career and reputation were on the line. And... he never treated me any different, even though I am black, and the woman who filed against him is black.

    I was handing the HUD reps some files when I overheard the lady, who was Asian, say to the man, who was black, "Well, you know [blank] I've always believed he's racist. I can tell by..." and the man responded, "Oh, yeah, I've always thought that about him," etc., etc., etc. Now, granted, the matter was NONE OF MY BUSINESS. My friend hadn't said anything to me. He didn't ask me to defend him nor did he say anything bad about the woman who filed. BUT... I had to speak up! I told them, "You're not talking about [blank], are you?" And you should have seen them perk up? "Yes!" they said. "What do you know?" Dear LouBelle, I promise you, these two were hoping BEYOND hope... that I knew something, would say something... to corroborate their suspicions that my coworker was, in fact, a racist.

    I did not do that, of course. Rather, I told them that (1) I had NEVER seen ANY indication of ANY kind of racism from him, that in fact I had seen him take money from his OWN pocket to buy a staff member (Asian) lunch; that (2) he ALWAYS treated me with mutual respect, gave me good advice, and took my advice; and (3) I would have made the exact same decision as he did.

    Needless to say... they were flabbergasted and began stuttering and stammering apologies. "Oh, that's GOOD to hear!" the lady said. Me? I couldn't believe that they were about to kill this man's career... and his reputation... because they THOUGHT he might be something he wasn't. I am sorry, but I am just not the kind to sit back and be silent over such a potential injustice. I simply can't do it.

    And I can't do it with regard to God and Christ, either. Regardless of whether earthling man "heaves sighs" (not you! Others!) against me for doing so... I am a loyal friend... and human being. The blessings that I received in the case above was the respect of the HUD representatives, and the gratitude of my coworker. The blessings I receive from God and Christ far, far outweigh anything earthling man could bring upon me.

    And I know you understand this. So, I bid you the greatest of love and peace and, again, I understand your position... and I am thankful that you understand mine.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


    I know you understand this.

  • LouBelle

    I do understand and get what you mean. Loyalty amoung the human race is a rare thing.

    God on the other hand - to put it so very blank it sounds horrid - doesn't need a thing from us if we get down to the nitty gritty.

    Thank you very much though - like I said I know what you mean.

  • AGuest

    at all, dear LouBelle (and peace to you!). Because it is the TRUTH... which I always love to hear (even if it ain't so "pretty" - LOLOL! At least I don't have to guess about it, you know?). You are right, of course: He doesn't need a single thing from us... and, of course, I am sure you know that I don't do it because He needs me to - . So again, MUCH thanks for understanding and always kind words. And know that I totally understand you, as well.

    Peace to you, always!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,


  • creativhoney

    all i can say is that if everyone has had their mouth round the bottle, i dont want any.

  • trueblue

Share this