"origins" of things like holidays...what jw started this crap?

by oompa 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • oompa

    i do not believe there is any bible precedent for the wt teaching that the origin of some celebration is important...as in it is pagan...and back in 1914 holidays and b-days were ok...i know that changed, but why?...why did all of a sudden it matter the origin of it?...i tried to get wife to see the folly of the wt position of saying pinatas dont matter now despite an evil disgusting satanic wicked origin...to no avail

    on a side note of similar interest...who came up with the teaching inanimate objects could be possessed by demons when it never happened in the bible and how often do they do that anymore?.........thanks....see i can still be serious!.......oompa

  • jeanniebeanz

    why did all of a sudden it matter the origin of it?...

    Because if you can isolate your followers from the rest of society, and instill a persecution complex and fear into them, you have more control. Making it 'against Jah's will' to celebrate holidays made witnesses somewhat outcast from the time they were children. The teasing and name calling that witness children take creates a loathing of 'worldly' tormentors that follows them into adulthood.

    At least, that's my own theory...


  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    I have not heard mention of demon infested second hand goods from the platform or in the literature for a long time but I know a lot of older dubs (70+) who still believe that crap.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    What is most ironic is that the origins of many Watchtower teachings reveal that the Witnesses themselves believe things because of factors outside of pure biblical command.

    The best example is the 144,000. After the 1925 failure many left the Bible students group, leading Rutherford to proclaim that the number of believers would continue to shrink untill armageddeon. But then the great depression happened, and suddenly people began coming into the group because of the hope it provided. Rutherford had to find a way around his statement that the anointed would continue to shrink, so he created his Jonadabs theology, which became the basis for the 144,000 teaching.

    So the entire creation of 'two classes of christians' came about because somebody had to explain an unexpected shift. I once had a JW tell me that this event was actually a miracle. It was reasoned that since people were coming into the organization, but nobody knew what their hope was, Holy Spirit was working and not just the actions of men.

    Of course, this is proven wrong by simply reading the magazines from that time. It is quite clear that people coming into the org prior to the labeling of the Jonadab class were told that they were not of the anointed. So much for holy spirit!

  • meangirl

    I think they wanted so much to be "different" that they started looking for things that would make them stand out. Now of course they have shot themselves in the foot because pretty much everything in our society that we live in today has pagan origins. Also since they came out saying pinatas were a conscious matter "since they are not used for the same thing they originally were".......Got news for them that pretty much applies to everything. So stupid.

  • yknot

    As we all know the Judge was all for creating publicity that also brought 'persecution'.....

    His main go-to guy was Clayton Woodworth.

    Holidays, birthdays, medical quackery.........right down to our very own non-pagan calendar.

    Frankly there is nothing that can't be linked to paganism.



    It was all changed by Drunkerford..

    The Original Grinch..

    ................ ...OUTLAW

  • WTWizard

    It seems that Russell had the attitude that, even though Jesus was not born on December 25, that is the day that people commonly set aside to commemorate his birth. For that reason, it was viewed as acceptable to celebrate Christmas.

    Then, sometime in 1927, Boozerford had the idea to ban it. He dug up some story about how Christmas is actually the rebirth of the sun, and celebrating Christmas was to be viewed as worshiping the sun. This led to that ban. It also led to people being cut off from regular people during the holiday season (and often long after the holiday season was done).

  • Meeting Junkie No More
    Meeting Junkie No More

    I was actually thinking about this very thing the other day...especially when it comes to birthdays...I mean, in a congregation of about 100 people there's already enough hoopla if everyone doesn't get invited to weddings and baby showers...can you imagine if birthdays WERE celebrated? There would be more parties and socializing within each congregation because with 100 members, that's 100 'special' days of the year where there will be partying and cake eating going on - so I just concluded that this probably was too much competition for the all-important preaching work; hence call it pagan and be done with it. Oompah, I agree 100% with the bs of the "origin" argument - EVERYTHING is pagan, because the pagans were here first!

  • greenie

    This is a frustrating question for me. Because it isn't a major issue in my church, they haven't really conducted any indepth spiritual investigation of it (unlike other things like the trinity or Jesus' role or homosexuality, etc. etc.). So I can easily research all the things they've said about homosexuality and biblical reasons for it, but not birthdays. To me the lack of information is due to the fact that the mainstream churches think it's a non-issue (same thing with Christmas not being Jesus' birthday), but of course to my Dub it's a sign of weakness or failure. Blargh.

    Are any mainstream Christian views or commentary on birthdays, holidays, etc.? The only ones I've found online are fairly extreme or evangelical.

    Chalam, Wobble, Narkissos? Anyone else?

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