Here at last, My JC letter. No response but heard thru the grapevine that I was DA'd anyways.

by Question_Mans_interpretation 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • sparrowdown

    True DOC

    - but most people have been to scared to write letters like this. I think if more people did and sent copies to all and sundry it just may embolden others to do the same. That's how movements get started.

    "Evil thrives when good men do nothing."

  • Question_Mans_interpretation
    I saw the thread on the df/da legalistic effects, Its what reminded me to finally search and find my letter. Putting everything into a legalistic format had no effect in my situation, but i think there might have been a better effect if my husband hadn't already gone through his JC. I think maybe the elders felt more confident by the time they got to me.
  • sparrowdown

    You will never know if it had an effect, so don't assume that it didn't.

    Letters like this can plant seeds of doubt in the minds of those that read it.

    Seeds that germinate later on down the track when the time is right.

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon
    I bet your letter scared the the B'jesus out of them.
  • WheninDoubt

    This is an interesting situation. However since you disassociated yourself by your acts of going to another church in quest of the truth, and by your own admission of doing so. Then there is no civil legal disparities to claim. Any junior grade trial lawyer for the WT can counter act any civil filings you think you might have. To disfellowship a person being present or not due to their own understanding is not uncommon for the WT. No more than any other religion that sets its own foundation. People need to learn to separate church from state to think they both run hand in hand when they don’t.

    It’s like atheist trying to sue any church for them not believing in God. However you might find a desperate civil litigant to attempt the impossible.

  • Question_Mans_interpretation

    Whenindoubt I think you missed the point on disassociation. I never understood how going to a church service counted as being disassociated when According to the watchtower society in the above quoted watchtower the only reason you can be Diassociated is if you request it or you join a SECULAR organization that violates Isaiah 2:4. Churches do not fall under secular organizations, and my wanting to attend another church is a 1st amendment right but because the witnesses pass policies of shunning then you are not truly free to exercise that right and so that is what causes a unique situation.

  • steve2

    Your sense of pain and being unfairly treated by the elders comes through and I so feel for what you're going through.

    If composing and sending the letter has given you a sense of being empowered to express yourself regardless of whether or not they have the common courtesy to acknowledge receiving it, well and good.

    But if you had perhaps held out even a little hope that the letter would help them see your circumstanes in a less judgmental and even more compassionate light, then you risk furthering your hurt and sense of outrage.

    At one level it may seem hurtful to ask this but at another it might be helpful: On what evidence did you base your hope that they would see reason and decide to treat you better? They do what elders worldwide do: Follow the instructions of other men (the self-appointed Governing Body) and very, very little else. The evidence for their heartlessness is mountainous!

    There are some experiences that are unavoidably painful; there are others that are needlessly painful because they reflect a vain hope that a good result will arise from a group with a well earnt reputation for being ruthless sticklers for man-made rules.

    None of this minimises my regard for your hurt. I just don't like to see people such as you dealing with unnecessary pain when the unavoidable pain is already taxing enough in and of itself.

  • EdenOne


    From that point on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; coercion by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me differently from any other person that is also not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate.

    I find this line of reasoning very interesting.

    Not only because the way the Witnesses treat DA's and DF'd people violates what Jesus taught: "And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:17 ISV) By his own example, Jesus didn't shun gentiles nor tax collectors. He spoke with them, ate with them, cured them and invited one of them to be an apostle. Fact is, the Witnesses go 'beyond what is written' and invalidate Christ's teachings when they shun former Witnesses, because they treat them WORSE than they treat non-believers.

    Not only is unscriptural, it's also potentially illegal, as you point out. Because you're being discriminated, not only regarding your previous church fellow members, but you're being discriminated regarding the rest of society. That is a violation of your civil rights. I wonder if this argument could be legally expanded and deepened to support some sort of legal action against the Organization.

    Consider this:

    In addition, the non-discrimination directives all state that an ‘instruction to discriminate’ is deemed to constitute ‘discrimination’.44 However, none of the directives provide a definition as to what is meant by the term. In order to be of any worth in combating discriminatory practices, it ought not to be confined to merely dealing with instructions that are mandatory in nature, but should extend to catch situations where there is an expressed preference or an encouragement to treat individuals less favourably due to one of the protected grounds. This is an area that may evolve through the jurisprudence of the courts.
    Although the non-discrimination directives do not oblige Member States to use criminal law to address acts of discrimination, a Framework Decision of the European Council does oblige all EU Member States to provide for criminal sanctions in relation to incitement to violence or hatred based on race, colour, descent, religion or belief, national or ethnic origin, as well as dissemination of racist or xenophobic material and condonation, denial or trivialisation of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity directed against such groups.45 Member States are also obliged to consider racist or xenophobic intent as an aggravating circumstance.

    Source: "Handbook on European Non-Discrimination Law", page 33, published by the European union Agency for Fundamental Rights and the Council of Europe (2010)

    In this matter, we are dealing with European laws. But note how "instruction to discriminate" constitutes discrimination and is included among the violations of human rights.


  • mana11

    QMI, So Sorry for you!

    What do you want from this sitution?.

    Do you want to stay in the congregation or leave it?.

    Your letter to them holds no weight to them as elders. they will only but glance at it, then see where you say you went to another church and by your own admission you are a gone. You even try to justify the other church as more christian than jehovahs org... lol

    I take it you have not been to any meetings, thus you have shown you don't want to be a part of the congregation.

    In Short by your actions you decided to LEAVE


    and work as we all are to to bring down that hateful organisation.

  • menrov

    I am always very surprised with this reason for DA/DF (attending another church). If such an act is wrong (considered a serious sin), then they (JW's) should stop preaching to and inviting other people (from other denominations) to attend a meeting in the KH, because by inviting them to the KH it would mean that they (JW's) are actually making someone (the person from the other church) to sin.

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