How did jesus know he was Gods son?

sleepy

How did jesus know he was Gods son?
That came to my mind one day when I was on the min.
If Jesus was just born like a human how would he know he was the son of God?
If he remmembered it then from what point? When he was one or two or five ,twelve, thirty?
If he remmebered it how did he know he was not just mad?
If we "remmembered" we were the son of God would we not think we were mad?
Did his parents teach him he was the son of God?Why should he beleive them?If your parents taught you , you were the son of God wouldn't you think you parents were a bit loopy?

Amazing

As a child, in my Catholic days, I always thought that Jesus knew who he was at all times. When I became a JW, we were taught that Jesus did not have his past life in heaven recalled to him until his baptism. Yet, it seems that he had an understanding when at age 12, he debated with the religious leaders in the Temple, but he may have lacked full understanding until he was baptized. When he was baptized, the heavens opened up, and a Dove jumped out and God the Father declared Jesus his son, coupled with John the Baptist confirming who Jesus was ... then it seems that at this point Jesus also got his super powers. I find when reading all these texts again, that most explanations are speculative conjecture read into the texts, and that we really don't know what Jesus knew. We only know what Jesus is reported to have said. - Amazing

Cygnus

As we all know (and as JWs are often vilified for) JWs believe that Jesus was not the Messiah until his baptism. In fact, JWs believe that God could have used (yes, used) anyone as a propiatory sacrifice -- it didn't have to be his only son.

When I was a JW, I think I believed that Jesus knew he was something special (thus the accolades given at his conception and birth, and the story of him in the temple as a youth), but he did not realize his commission and true identity until his baptism. I honestly think if I were a Christian that is still what I would believe -- that when Jesus visited John the Baptist, he began to realize his destiny.

The film _The Last Temptation of Christ_ deals extensively with its fictitious Jesus' struggles with his relationship with God, and what God wants from him. The film _Dogma_ also has a couple of interesting scenes where a resurrected apostle and the Metatron are both trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be the 'savior du jour' that Jesus went through the same conflicts ("I don't want to do it, can't you find somebody else?" "That's exactly what Jesus said.").

unclebruce

Well sleepy,

From what I can gather Jesus grew up believing he was a Messiah in the strict Jewish sense. In those days messiahs were relatively common in Palestine and the Romans were killing them as fast as they popped up.

It was Paul who changed Jesus the martyred messiah into Jesus the risen Christ. Separating true history from Paulian invention isn't easy around here. For a good grounding in the life and times of Jesus, I suggest you read "The Messianic Legacy" by Baigent and Leigh.

unclebruce

Amazing

Hi Cygnus: You noted,

"In fact, JWs believe that God could have used (yes, used) anyone as a propiatory sacrifice -- it didn't have to be his only son."

I don't recall this view being taught. The Society agrees with Christians when it teaches that Jesus was born perfect, shielded in Mary's womb from the effects of Adam's sin. God had no one else who could fulfill that roll.

What the Society does teach that departs from Christian teaching, and which sounds similar to what you stated, is that technically, God could have selected any Angel, as all these sons of God are perfect (except the demons of course), but he chose Jesus because he was Number One Son. The Society blieves that by making this choice, Satan could never argue that Jesus was reaching out for more status, but that he agreed to be a sacrifice out of pure unselfish love.

Oddly enough, Jesus was promoted anyway ... his name and honor being elevated by God to new highs. I think Jesus must have realized this would happen, having known his father for so long, and being a perfect representation of the father. But, were Jesus part of an equla Triune Godhead, he could never possibly seek higher glory and power, because he already had it ... and so, in an odd sort of way, the Trinity makes more sense here ... and then Satan nor any human could ever claim that God himself did not understand human suffering, because a member of the Godhead, the Trinity became human and sufferred with us as much as anyone could.

In saying all the above, I am not a Trinitarian or non-Trinitarian, because I just don't know. But the arguments are fascinating nontheless. - Amazing

Gopher

I remember it about the same as Cygnus does.

When the "heavens opened up" to Jesus, and the holy spirit came down, then the voice said "This is my son", at that point he official became Christ, the anointed one.

Then he had to go 40 days into the wilderness to meditate on the awesome amount of information just fed into his brain from up above. Then he finally understood his commission, which included that he would have to die.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Cygnus

Hi Amazing,

I don't know if the Society has a strict position on this, but I'm pretty sure that it is taught that Jesus was a propiatory sacrifice based on the principle of life for life, eye for eye, etc. It did not matter that he had a supernatural pre-human existence in heaven. He was 100% human and that is all he was when he walked the earth and was hung on the torture stake, therefore he was the exact equal to Adam. Adam had no pre-human existence (unless you're a Mormon) and yet he was 'perfect' in his flesh, so why would God have to use an angel to become the zygote Christ?

This is really an interesting subject for me. Russell came up with the idea that the Logos was not incarnated as tradition says, but rather his life-force was transmitted into the womb of Mary. Yet the Logos never "died" in any way during that integration into humanity. Then of course you have the Socinian view which states that Christ did not personally exist in heaven before his birth on earth, but was merely an idea in God's mind. I find support for this view in the texts that say Jesus was tested in all things as we ourselves are (what sort of test could you possibly manufacture to tempt a billions of years old person who has spent all that time with his heavenly father in glorious splendor -- Jesus would have had such a greater advantage over Adam or anyone else). Also, just as Paul wrote that the church was "chosen before the foundation of the world" so was the Lamb slain as such. Therefore any expressions that seem to indicate Christ's existence before he walked the earth are merely idioms to express the Jewish idea of pre-existence in heaven -- God's will exists in heaven before it manifests itself on earth. I admire this Jesus because it REALLY makes him human and really subject to temptation and sin -- the JW and orthodox Jesus would have had it much easier.

I have read web pages critical of unorthodox teachings of Jesus because then such a Jesus could have sinned! And that would have turned the universe upside down. They say that since Jesus is God he could not have sinned, his temptations on the mount and such were given as proof-positive that he is God and thus he achieved a greater victory than anyone else could. Blah blah blah blah..... I perfer a more personal, struggling Christ. Honestly, I watched _Last Temptation_ last week and I really felt that if I still had faith, it would have strengthened my faith in Jesus. THAT was a Jesus I could relate to.

sleepy

I know it is the witness belief that all was revealed at baptism but didn't he call God his father when in the temple at twelve?
Also he would have to had belived he was something special in the first place to get baptised.
Didn't John already believe jesus was the son of God or was it just the messiah?

Gopher

Sleepy,

The best way I can understand this "conundrum" is like you said, Jesus KNEW he was someone special, he just didn't know all the details until the heavens opened up after his baptism.

As to John's belief about his cousin Jesus the carpenter (prior to his baptizing Jesus), the most amount of detail is in John 1. Before the baptism he said "I am not worthy to untie his sandal", and then he called him the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world", which is fairly close (but not exactly) calling him God's Son. He also said "behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me" even though he was born 6 months ahead of Jesus. So John was alluding to his heavenly pre-existence.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

OUTLAW

Hey Sleepy,thats easy.If you check out religious pictures,Jesus has a halo.How many people you know,got a glow in the dark head.Then he turned water into wine,someone with a lot of push has got to be on your side for that one!Englishman has a never ending beer,but does his head glow in the dark?I doubt it.Thats why Englishman isn`t Jesus.Have I missed the point somewhere in all of this?..(LOL)...OUTLAW

How did jesus know he was Gods son?

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