I wish to reach my ex who is heavily entrenched in the Org. I intend to argue along these lines using the parable of the wheat and the weeds. That Jesus knows those that belong to him and today they are scattered throughout the different denominations of Christendom. What do you think?
Wish to debunk Witness God's Org Concept
by Luo bou to 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
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OUTLAW
I think you should ask them to find the word "Organization, in the Bible..
It can`t be done.....Because..
It`s not there..
...........................OUTLAW
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AllTimeJeff
Whenever anyone decides they need to do something, my advice is always the same:
Make a decision, pick a path, make it work.
If you want to learn about the wheat and the weeds, there are many resources on the internet for that purpose. If you feel you have a good handle on this passage, and thats what you want to do, then
I noticed its your ex. I have one. You must still have a relationship. Whatever your motives are, they are your own. I honestly can say that if your relationship with your ex is so good that you can still talk about this with them, then kudo's to you.
Most ex's are ex's for a reason....
Good luck!
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Satanus
The wt leaders have changed this doctrine a few times. Perhaps, read up and understand those changes, and then go from there. Using the question method is always good. Jws love to be the ones explaining everything.
S
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Satanus
Second thought, actually, to be more exact, they changed their teaching on the sheep and goats being separated. Maybe not, on the weeds and wheat.
S
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Tuesday
Simple, ask them for proof.
"They're the only ones that are interpreting the bible correctly" "Could you provide proof?"
"They were chosen in 1918 by Jesus to be God's organization" "Could you provide proof?"
"They are the only ones preaching God's word" "Could you provide proof?"
"They are the best people in the world" "Could you provide proof?"
It's all just evidence, whatever they wish to show you, just ask to provide external evidence. It's amazing how quickly teachings break down when you simply ask "why?".
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yadda yadda 2
Theoretically that might be a good argument, but practically, it will probably achieve very little to help your ex leave the org and could even make the situation worse by causing him to react very defensively and severe all contact with you (JW's can take it very personally when you attack the religions interpretations). I would firstly suggest reading Steven Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" to learn the best strategies for helping him.
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Chalam
Hi LBT,
I wish to reach my ex who is heavily entrenched in the Org. I intend to argue along these lines using the parable of the wheat and the weeds. That Jesus knows those that belong to him and today they are scattered throughout the different denominations of Christendom. What do you think?
I think you are partly on the right lines. It is all about Jesus.
John 14:6 (New International Version)
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
There is no one verse or passage which will convict your ex. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.
1 Thessalonians 1:5 (New International Version)
5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.
Unfortunately, some will always be those spoken of here
Matthew 13:14-15 (New International Version)
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'You need to pray this prayer
Ephesians 1:17-23 (New International Version)
17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
Your question about the church is answered in the last couple of verses. The church is one body under Christ. The WT claim that for themselves but in effect they demote Christ and elevate themselves to His position. For instance, back to the first verse, Jesus said He is THE way but the WT proclaim they are the way. Sure, they will say "Christ is the head" or "Jesus is Lord" but from them, that is just plain untrue.
Blessings,
Stephen
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teel
If one is a devout JW he/she has the answer to anything you proove to be wrong with his faith. That answer is: "this is the Devil's teaching", and they sink back and rehash in their minds that this is the Truth, that the GB is God's mouthpiece, and everything is just perfect. Hence the followup defensive stance, and severing the contact.
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wobble
Tuesdays questions are excellent, but I think you need to say "Can you provide solid proof that will stand up to any scrutiny" after all if the proof is true it will.
I tried these sort of questions on my family a couple of days ago,and they resorted to "Well I am satisfied with the proof of the choosing of the GB/FDS"
So what you need to INSIST on is proof that would satisfy a third party, who has an analytical mind and critical thinking skills, or your ex will duck out of really examining things in depth.
Good luck !
Love
Wobble