by jonathan dough 12 Replies latest jw friends
Does anyone actually believe that the New Covenant is temporary as the JWs falsly teach and limited only to the 144,000? That the non-annointed still "benefit" from it though are not parties to it? That there can be salvation outside the NC?
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-2.html#IV
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html (covenants)
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html#I Summary of Beliefs
I hvae thoroughly researched the bible on that and found nothing to substantiate any limit on those in the NC, or salvation apart from it.
That is my conclusion as well. It's amazing how they were able to come up with this novel idea.
JD II
I would like to see one direct scripture showing that fable. There is none- it takes out of context verses combined and assumes JW baseless interpretations
The whole 144,000 idea is so weakly defended by the witnesses (only two obscure and symbolic references to the number that really could mean almost anything) that it really is hardly worthy of discussion: Except for one thing -
The JWs have actually made this practically one of the core tripods of their belief system. Other two being weird numerological chronology of the end, and an obsessive reliance on the medieval name Jehovah.
A witness is so blinded by their confusing litany that they will just blankly stare at you and say - but it says 144,000 in the BIBLE! OK - Right, but it doesn't say who they are, what they are, when they lived, or where they are going in any kind of understandable clear terms. Nor also did ANYBODY ever think up such a belief system in around 2000 years of Christian theology before Rutherford cooked it up to create a ruling class and a slave class.
it forms the basis for their authority structure...since it was taught only 144,000 were annointed and the 'other sheep' need to follow them for salvation. With emphasis on a small amount of annointed remaining and the GB being their spokesman to be listened to. Amazing how this basis has gotten weaker and weaker with the door that was closed in 1935 being reopened, and the increased emphasis on obedience to the GB at all costs. Amazing the mind control.
The JWs have actually made this practically one of the core tripods of their belief system. Other two being weird numerological chronology of the end, and an obsessive reliance on the medieval name Jehovah.
Add to that Arianism. I'm struck by the temporary nature of the NC contrary to all proofs. The New Covenant, and presumably the kingdom, expires when “… all of the ‘Israel of God’ (the 144,000) are resurrected to immortality in the heavens” (Insight, 524; parenthesis added). This means that the eternal New Covenant, in furtherance of and pursuant to which Jesus gave his life, lasts approximately two thousand years because the resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 and will conclude shortly (Climax Book, 103, 277).
Scratch my head.
BTW - have we had a thread recently showing what mainstream christianity thinks about these 144,000 references in Revelation?
For example - a symbolic representation of a vague "new Israel" i.e. the whole church? Martyred Christians through the centuries? Other?
BTW - have we had a thread recently showing what mainstream christianity thinks about these 144,000 references in Revelation?
For example - a symbolic representation of a vague "new Israel" i.e. the whole church? Martyred Christians through the centuries? Other?
I tried to start one but it seems to have been pulled as well.
Plenty of proofs here:
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html#II
They really don't have a leg to stand on.
JD II
For those who don't understand the New Covenant and its related kingdom, the Jehovah’s Witnesses incorrectly teach that there are two kingdoms over which Christ rules. The first kingdom is called the “kingdom of the son of his love” (the New Covenant kingdom) and is a spiritual kingdom with Christ as head over the 144,000 only. This kingdom was brought into existence through the shed blood of Christ under the New Covenant God spoke of through Jeremiah at Jeremiah 31:31-34 and inaugurated at Pentecost. Only the 144,000, Christ and God are parties to the New Covenant with Christ acting as mediator for a short while.
The second kingdom, the real kingdom of God, is the “kingdom of our lord and of his Christ” (the 1914 kingdom). It began in 1914 at “the end of the “appointed times of the nations” and is over all mankind on earth” (Insight, 169; Reasoning, 95-97). The 1914 kingdom lasts forever. The 1914 kingdom, or “God’s kingdom” over which Jesus began to rule is of “greater proportions and bigger dimensions…” than the New Covenant kingdom, but Jesus received only a “subsidiary share” in the 1914 kingdom of God, they say.
