Matt. 18:15-17 - all about property?

by sd-7 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  sd-7

  Was reading Borganized To Do the Borg's Will, and I noticed they applied Matthew 18:15-17 only to property and financial issues, saying that the illustration that followed those words--regarding the slave who owed the king 60 million denarii and who had his fellow slave thrown in jail for owing a much smaller amount--justifies such an application. Since the Borg is making me as angry as Captain Picard after he got assimilated, I'll be blunt: this is stupid. If I were a cursing man, I'd say it even more bluntly.

  Anyway, the illustration there is NOT about the money owed. Jesus underscores the real lesson: if you don't forgive people, whose sins against you are comparatively minor, the Father will treat you the same harsh way you treated them. DUH!!! I mean, how do they get away with this stuff? The big warning sign, as I've learned thanks to insightful folks here, was the use of the word "evidently". "Evidently, the sky is green with purple polka dots." I guarantee that'd get Borg members to create glasses with green and purple polka dots just to get rid of the cognitive dissonance.

  It is clear that, as always, Big Brother must find ways to explain why they ignore clear scriptural directions. The easiest way is simply to get people to trust every word they say, so that even when they contradict scripture, it doesn't matter. There is no other thought inside the mind of a JW except what Big Bro. put there. The bottom line was, "Jesus said what? No, no, he didn't say that, evidently. [Blank] him--when your brother commits a sin, you go to the elders, period. Skip all that other [blank]. And that's the bottom line, 'cause the faithful slave said so!"

  I was just reading up on it 'cause Mom is threatening to go to the Thought Police on account of not being able to verify my activities with my lady. I'm about to disassociate myself by letter. Don't want to do that, but my beloved is still inside and I'm trying to play this delicately. But the [blank] is about to hit the fan. I was raised a WT loyalist and a coward. That's why this is happening. I make no pretense that I'm anything but spineless and whatever else you can say. Just...my life is really going to get frakked up soon. I know you folks probably don't care. I just...wanted...needed to say it all.

  I wish we could all forget about the Society and move on with life. I wish my mom hadn't lost her father and started hearing voices before the JWs showed up at our door all those years ago. ... Well, it's too late now. Fire away, you wicked, hateful apostates. Why do you oppose the channel that Jehovah has clearly chosen? ... Sarcasm. Bye.

  SD-7
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  PSacramento

  Where did you read that the Wt views that parable as being about money and property?
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  sd-7

  The financial aspect of the illustration, and the aforementioned illustration took up most of the rest of Matthew 18, by the way, was applied to Jesus' words regarding if your brother sins against you at Matt. 18:15-17. This [mis]application was done in Organized To Do Jehovah's Will in the chapter regarding 'maintaining cleanness in the congregation'. Hope that clears it up.

  SD-7
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  PSacramento

  So, if I am reading you right, the WT used the parable of the "unmerciful servant" to illustrate...what exactly ??
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  sd-7

  That this parable somehow limits Jesus' words, "If your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault etc.", to financial matters and does not apply to serious sins like fornication and the like. Because the 'unmerciful servant' owed money in the parable, therefore, EVIDENTLY, Jesus' earlier words MUST relate to financial/property matters. Hey, it's their idea, don't ask me how it makes sense. Does that help any?

  SD-7
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  PSacramento

  AH, I see !
  Thanks, that clears it up.

  And yes, that makes no sense considering that Matt 18: 21 starts off with Peter asking Jesus how many times we shoudl forgive someone that SINS against him.

  But typical of the WT, how they grab verses and use them out of context and typical of how so few JW' actually read the Bible.
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  sd-7

  That would explain it. I read the Bible 4 times, and even when I sat in the Kingdom Hall, I had this nagging feeling when I read the New Testament that the Christianity there described was nothing like what JWs were doing. Who knew it would blossom into independent, opinionated fault-finding against God's sole channel of communication? Go figure.

  SD-7
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  Narkissos

  They actually apply these verses to interpersonal offences (financial or other, e.g. gossip, slander, etc.) -- following in interpretation the variant reading the NWT rejects, i.e. "if your brother sins against you" (by assimilation to v. 21 maybe).

  Note the circular reasoning (short circle) in Watchtower 10:15 1999:

  Under the Law, some sins called for more than forgiveness from an offended person. Blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry, and the sexual sins of fornication, adultery, and homosexuality were to be reported to and handled by elders (or priests). That is true also in the Christian congregation. (Leviticus 5:1; 20:10-13; Numbers 5:30; 35:12; Deuteronomy 17:9; 19:16-19; Proverbs 29:24 Not even one NT quotation?) Note, though, that the class of sins Jesus here spoke of could be settled between two persons. As examples: Moved by anger or jealousy, a person slanders his fellowman. A Christian contracts to do a job with particular materials and to finish by a certain date. Someone agrees that he will repay money on a schedule or by a final date. A person gives his word that if his employer trains him, he will not (even if changing jobs) compete or try to take his employer’s clients for a set time or in a designated area. If a brother would not keep his word and is unrepentant over such wrongs, it would certainly be serious. (Revelation 21:8) But such wrongs could be settled between the two involved.
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  sd-7

  Nice quote there. I was thinking of what is implied in 1 Corinthians 5. Clearly, what the man was doing in the Corinth congregation was known by everyone and not just handled by three elders and spread down the grapevine after the person had been iced. This would imply more than just elders talking to him. But notably, the quote you used there, Narkissos, does not at all use any NT scripture to support it. "The Law said it was this way, and it's this way now, because it's clearly this way." I love circles.

  SD-7
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  PSacramento

  1Corinthians was Paul voicing that "sins' against the church shoudl be dealt by the church and issues between bothers shoudl be dealt with the church as "judges", but this had nothing to do with crimes, Paul was very clear that one must submit tothe correct authorities.

  Stealing, murder, rape, things of that nature were crimes and as such must be dealt with by the proper authorities.