by AwSnap 46 Replies latest watchtower bible
On a side note, anyone remember that cheesy movie from the 80's "Warlock", where the warlock finds the true name of God and by saying it backwards can undo creation !!
LOL !!
Nakissos, question, what does YHWH way stand for and can that leads us to a conclusion of how it MAy have neem pronounced?
The whole "I AM", "I will cause to be" and all that...
PS,
Basically (and contrary to a widespread misrepresentation in popular "Bible studies") names don't mean. The function of a name (either of person or deity) is to point to someone, not to mean something.
Even when names are identical with nouns with a clear meaning you don't normally think of the meaning of the noun when you use the name. If you have a friend named Rose, you will not think of the flower every time you call her name. And when you do, you will make it clear that you do by special expression. Functionally, "Isaac" only means "laughter" when the context explicitly recalls the meaning of the noun behind the name. In most cases where Bible texts (e.g. Genesis) play on "names meaning" what they do is actually a pun, or an artificial (popular or not) etymology projected on a name, not its "true origin" (if that means anything).
This I believe is the case with Exodus 3, which "explains" yhwh by the distinct root hyh, "to be(come)". It is a late and artificial etymology. From what meaningful word (in which language?) the name actually derived is a matter for guesswork. One of the most common suggestions is that it might have originally been related to the idea of "blowing" (wind, storm, breath), which has a number of echoes in the Yhwh texts.
Interesting, thanks Narissos.
Food for thought.
Narkissos,
Basically (and contrary to a widespread misrepresentation in popular "Bible studies") names don't mean. The function of a name (either of person or deity) is to point to someone, not to mean something.
Even when names are identical with nouns with a clear meaning you don't normally think of the meaning of the noun when you use the name. If you have a friend named Rose, you will not think of the flower every time you call her name. And when you do, you will make it clear that you do by special expression. Functionally, "Isaac" only means "laughter" when the context explicitly recalls the meaning of the noun behind the name. In most cases where Bible texts (e.g. Genesis) play on "names meaning" what they do is actually a pun, or an artificial (popular or not) etymology projected on a name, not its "true origin" (if that means anything).
This I believe is the case with Exodus 3, which "explains" yhwh by the distinct root hyh, "to be(come)". It is a late and artificial etymology. From what meaningful word (in which language?) the name actually derived is a matter for guesswork. One of the most common suggestions is that it might have originally been related to the idea of "blowing" (wind, storm, breath), which has a number of echoes in the Yhwh texts.
Outstanding post!
Thanks. zarco
Hi Doug Mason,
Your article is still on freeminds:
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/jehovah/ witnessing -the- name .html
greetings!
Randy
Narkissos.
Thank you for your interesting explanation.
Basically (and contrary to a widespread misrepresentation in popular "Bible studies") names don't mean.
I think that your explanation is somewhat correct, IMO.
I think that names have a meaning, respectively.
Although I do not know foreign circumstances, when Japanese parents name a child, there is no meaningless name.
The "parents' hope" to those children is contained in those names.
P.S.
The divine name has a meaning of "I AM."
In short, it means "Jesus" which is similarly "I AM." (John 8:58)
If we are looking at only the name of "Yahweh" or "Jesus", there is no relation in them, IMO.
possible-san,
Meaning is certainly often involved when names are given (to children, or nicknames later in life); more or less depending on the culture -- European countries with a "foreign" religious tradition used to have "Christian" names deriving from Hebrew, Greek or Latin, the "original meaning" of which was totally unknown to most, or at best a matter of curiosity. Names simply recurred in families, skipping one or two generations; they reminded of the (great-)grandfather/mother more than they "meant" anything. Nowadays, especially among the least educated, babies are often named after the main characters of the last American movies / soap operas...
But even if a clear meaning is attached to a name (if only by popular etymology), it comes to mind only exceptionally. My wife is from the Middle East and she always knew her name means "wish," but that's not what she 'hears' every time her name is called. In normal usage a name stands for a face, a "person". And there must be a break, an interruption of this normal usage for the latent or potential 'meaning' behind the name to come front stage so to say. Indicated in speech by something like "that's why you were called X," "you were rightly/wrongly named," etc. Iow, even when the "meaning of a name" is transparent it can only be evoked by pun or wordplay structure, relating a functionally meaningless name to a meaningful noun, verb, etc. -- which is semantically distinct even though formally identical. And to this end, of course, a popular etymology works just as well as a "true meaning".
In Exodus 3:14 "I am" is 'hyh, not yhwh (no way Yhwh can mean "I am"; if it's construed as a verb it is a 3rd person). Moreover it is first part of a definite structure 'hyh 'shr 'hyh, "I am/will be that/who I am/will be" which had most likely a negative nuance, as in "who/what I am is none of your business" (cf. 33:19 for a similar structure and other negative responses in theophanies, Genesis 32:30; Judges 13:18), before it appears alone in 14b; the Greek translates egô eimi ho ôn, "I am the being = the one who is," and retains ho ôn, notegô eimi, as the isolated form. The absolute egô eimi of the Fourth Gospel are more directly reminiscent of Deutero-Isaiah (41:5; 43:10 etc.) than Exodus 3.
Narkissos.
Thank you for your reply.
In Exodus 3:14 "I am" is 'hyh, not yhwh (no way Yhwh can mean "I am"; if it's construed as a verb it is a 3rd person).
Yeah.
If that one was Jehovah's Witnesses, everybody knows it, IMO.
The "I AM" is a meaning in "the first person."
That is, it is expressed from the standpoint of God.
the Greek translates egô eimi ho ôn, "I am the being = the one who is," and retains ho ôn, notegô eimi, as the isolated form.
Yeah.
If that person was Jehovah's Witnesses, everybody knows also about it, IMO.
I also explained to other people formerly, like you.
The absolute egô eimi of the Fourth Gospel are more directly reminiscent of Deutero-Isaiah (41:5; 43:10 etc.) than Exodus 3.
I think that Jehovah's Witnesses know well also about it.
That is, it is "Ani hu."
I think that what you say is correct.
But, traditionally, for Jews and Christians, Ex 3:14 is more famous.
P.S.
I feel uncomfortable whenever you use the word "Deutero-Isaiah."
Probably, it is a "hypothesis."
Of course, it is your freedom no matter what hypothesis you believe.
The difference between yhwh and 'hyh in Exodus 3:14ff is not only a matter of person (3rd or 1st): should yhwh be construed as a Hebrew verbal form it would not be the same verb: hwh vs. hyh.
The difference cannot be explained away as "older" and "later" forms of the same verb: hwh (hw'), although much rarer than hyh, exists in the BH corpus, including very late texts.
Genesis 27:29 hwh gbyr l'chyk, become (be set as?) master of your brothers;
Isaiah 16:4 hwy str lmw, become a refuge to them;
Nehemiah 6:6 hwh lhm lmlk, become king to them;
Job 37:6 (of the snow + rain, etc.) hwh 'rç, fall on the earth;
Ecclesiastes 2:22, mh-hwh l'dm..., what befalls man (for all his toil)...
Ecclesiastes 11:3, sh-ypwl h-`ç shm yhw', where a tree falls (npl), there it lies (is fallen?) (clouds, rain and wind in the context).
The metaphors in the least abstract uses -- Job/Ecclesiastes -- are possibly (although marginally due to their rarity and late date) interesting for the hypothesis of Yhwh as a "storm-god" (Southern variant of Baal).
Narkissos,
I can only picture this scenario in Exodus:
Moses kneeling by the burning bush and asking with all humility, "who are you? what is your name?", to which God replies, "None of your freaking business !".
LOL !!
That would be to perfect !!
