OMG !!! If you google Hitler Brownshirts all you get are right wing propaganda sites comparing Hitler to Obama and "Obama Youth" crap. I'm so sick of the ignorance!
Evidence Hitler and Mussolini Despised Unions
by bluesapphire 32 Replies latest jw friends
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TheOldHippie
It was not so much that he hated unions, but he wanted them to be 100 % a part of his party, beliefs, politics, he could not tolerate a force outside of his own party, one that could possibly one day rebel or harbour independant ideas. As one source put it, " His first move was to take over the trade unions
. Its leaders were sent to concentration camps and the organization was put under the control of the Nazi Party. The trade union movement now became known as the Labour Front." So if you look at various history books, you will see that the Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats and above all the Trade Union leaders were among the very first to be persecuted. Then the organisations were reformed to being loyal parts or instruments of the Nazi Party, although perhaps continuing with a structure or name as if nothing had happened. The teachers were forced into new unions, the sports movement likewise, industrial workers likewise, the army as in the USSR had new political officers appointed who de facto became the new military division leaders and overruled opinions of the generals etc., so he did not hate unions because in fact the whole country, the whole organisational life was changed into one huge set or system of unions - but it had to be unions he controlled 100 % himself. The corporate state - where everything is unions, organised, corporate.
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Narkissos
National syndicalism is less distinct in Nazi Germany than in Fascist Italy because the Nazi party captured and hijacked the ideals of Unions right from the start; in both DAP and NSDAP the A stands for Arbeiter, Nazism (National-Socialism) defined itself primarily as a workers party; it focused on economics (employment, wages), and resorted to superficial anti-capitalistic revolutionary rhetorics, although reversing the internationalist trend of historical unions by playing nationalism against class struggle. One thing to keep in mind is that labour unions at that point were divided between Marxism and anarcho-syndicalism. Making the state an instrument for the welfare of the working class (if only in propaganda) could appeal to the former who had been ideologically prepared to a statist (although not nationalist) version of socialism. The anarchists were not fooled and were the primary target of repression. (The situation in Italy is more complex since Mussolini had been close to anarcho-syndicalist circles in his early life and 'converted' to state nationalism and militarism later on.)
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Farkel
Hitler also courted the Catholic Church at first. Did that make him a good Catholic?
All dictators court whomever they need to court to help them establish power. Once that is established, they destroys or takes over or makes puppets those who they thinks will get in their way.
How "strong" were unions once Mussolini took full control of Italy?
All you "die hards" keep forgetting that socialism is an economic and not a political movement. It is a means to an end. Once the "worker bees" are on your side, dictators have the the backing of the majority of the people.
Farkel
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bluesapphire
Farkel, we're not talking about "courting". We're talking about persecuting straight from the onset and throwing into concentration camps. Hitler apparently attacked the union leaders and threw them into the concentration camps at the onset. It was deliberate and planned. He never courted them.
You're comparing apples to oranges here.
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Farkel
bluesapphire,
:We're talking about persecuting straight from the onset and throwing into concentration camps.
Obviously, you never read this reference in your thread:
:Hitler courted the labor unions in the 1920's and procured their support. In 1933 he took them over and abolished them.
:From one of my favorite sources. See paragraph 2 on page 213.
As I said,
:All dictators court whomever they need to court to help them establish power. Once that is established, they destroy or take over or make puppets those who they think will get in their way.
:You're comparing apples to oranges here.
The proof has already been shown that Hitler "courted" unions in the 1920's until he established his power. He also courted the Catholic church until he established his power. Mussolini also "courted" the unions until he established absolute power. Is there any part of this you do not understand?
:Besides that, if you are trying to correlate Hitler's action against unions with conservatism, then you must show where conservatives have given any indication they want to not only destroy unions but throw them into concentration camps. You can't do that, so comparing those who merely dislike unions is a strawman argument and pretty lame one, at that.
Farkel
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bluesapphire
Farkel, I know you are not naive. So you cannot possibly believe that conservatives do not want to destroy unions. You just can't possibly believe that. Given the power, big business and the right wing would destroy unions in a heartbeat.
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bluesapphire
PS, in that link, forgive me, but I don't see where it says that he courted the unions.
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Farkel
:So you cannot possibly believe that conservatives do not want to destroy unions
I think that ,many unions have become just as corrupt as any other large institution. I personally don't think unions should be "destroyed" because that would be unAmerican and unions are just another example of free enterprise, although just like some elements of free enterprise, many unions have run amok.
Unions are just as guilty of putting a gun-to-the-head of business as business has been of trying to screw its workers and unions have screwed lots of businesses into bankruptcy.
I don't have the answers, but I do know the problems. Ultimately, the competition in a free market forces things to work out, e.g. if wages and benefits are so low, workers won't even take the jobs, business has to budge or they will go bankrupt. If wages and benefits are so high businesses can't continue to make money, workers have to budge or business will go bankrupt.
Farkel
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beksbks
Given the power, big business and the right wing would destroy unions in a heartbeat.
They practically have Blue. It started with Reagan, the most anti labor president in history, until GWBush. Reagan is also the one who gave amnesty to illegal aliens. Union membership has fallen by nearly half since Reagan. Oddly enough, real wages in America have either stagnated or declined since then as well even though productivity has increased. So that means we are working longer and harder, and the employers are making more pofits, but workers are making less.