Is a Public Display of Rage, a D'fing Offense?

by jamiebowers 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • jamiebowers

    Cursing, then, is a sin among Jehovah's Witnesses, but it's a "nonjudicial" one-meaning it's not sufficiently grave to merit formal censure from Witness elders and cannot lead to "disfellowshipping" (expulsion from the congregation). Infractions for which you might be disfellowshipped include abortion, sexual abuse, adultery, heresy, and murder. The Sept. 8, 1989, edition of Awake! recommends that "if a fellow Christian lapses in his or her speech," the best corrective is "a kindly reminder-not a lecture." Habitual cussing, however, may warrant a talking-to from a fellow Witness or some kind of disciplinary action from family members.

    Is this true?

    If a "JW commoner" had been televised throwing a public tantrum, spewing multiple F-bombs, and threatening an innocent with physical harm, that "JW commoner" would be called before a JW "judicial committee", and at a minimum placed on "public reproof", and forced to undergo "marking", including "shunning". Do I really need to explain why WatchTower Cult HQ writes off Serena's actions as a harmless slip of the lips.

    Or is this true?

  • OnTheWayOut

    Here's the rules (reasons to hold a JC). When you get near the bottom, you will see obscene speech is listed as well as fits of anger.
    A JC can be held for such. I have never heard of it for the obscene speech, but there it is. Keep in mind that the only reason for DF is unrepentance, not the action that gets you in the room.

    Uphold Jehovah's Righteousness

    Wrongdoing is increasing in frequency and in depravi-
    ty; such can infiltrate and affect the Christian congrega-
    tion. (2 Tim. 3:1-5, 13; .Jude 3, 4, 11-13)

    The Scriptures clearly show that Jehovah forbids certain
    conduct among his clean people; brothers need to up-
    hold Jehovah's righteous standards regarding the follow-


    A degree of guilt could result from careless driving, care-
    less maintenance of one's automobile, or other careless or
    thoughtless action that causes injury or death. (Compare
    Deuteronomy 22:8. )

    Being a professional boxer may be viewed in a similar
    way. (w817/1 pp. 30-1)

    Attempted suicide may be the result of deep despair or
    major depression; deal carefully and compassionately with
    such a person. In most cases a judicial hearing is not
    required. (Ps. 88:3, 17, 18; Prov. 15:13; Eccl. 7:7; g90
    9/8 pp 22-3; w90 3/15 pp. 26-30; w90 3/1 pp. 5-9; w83
    8/1 pp. 3-11)

    Sexual misconduct, including; adultery, fornication, and
    other forms of "'a.."

    Uncleanness includes an intentional momentary touching
    of sexual parts or caressing of breasts. ( I Thess. 4:7, 8;
    1 Tim. 5:1,2)

    "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock"


    Such minor uncleanness can be handled at the discre-
    tion of an elder or two; it does not require a judicial

    There is a need for strong counsel, admonition, and
    assistance to help the individual to maintain chaste
    conduct in the future.

    If not corrected, such conduct may escalate in gravity
    and by frequent repetition become loose conduct.

    Loose conduct is a shocking, flagrant disregard for Jeho-
    vah's moral standards. (Gal. 5:19; w83 3/15 p. 31; w73
    9/15 pp. 574-6)

    It may include the willful practice of heavy petting or
    the fondling of breasts.

    The nature, circumstances, and actual extent of what
    has occurred may indicate loose conduct, which would
    require judicial action.

    Such practices can easily lead to por.nei´a.

    "Por.nei´a" involves immoral use of the genitals of at least
    one human ( whether in a natural or a perverted way ), and
    there must have been another party to the immorality‹a
    human of either sex or a beast; willing participation incurs
    guilt and requires judicial action. It is not a casual touch-
    ing of the sex organs between persons but involves the
    manipulation of the genitals. (w83 6/1 pp. 23-6; w83
    3/15 pp. 30-1)

    It includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation
    between persons not married to each other, homosexu-
    ality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bes-
    tiality. (Lev. 20:10, 13, 15, 16; Rom. 1:24, 26, 27, 32;
    1 Cor. 6:9, 10)

    Also included are sexual abuse of children, including
    practices involving a catamite (a boy kept for purposes
    of sexual perversion). (Deut. 23:17, 18, Ref.: Bi., ftns.)

    Victims of sexual abuse need to be treated with
    extreme thoughtfulness and kindness. Elders should
    always do what they reasonably can to protect
    children from further abuse;
    follow the Society's directives on such matters. (g85 1/22 p. 8)

    UNIT 5 (1 )


    Self-abuse, or masturbation, is not "porna'a," nor
    would one who was raped be guilty of por.nei´a. (w83
    3/15 p. 30; w74 3/1 p. 160; it-l pp. 862-4; tp p. 144)

    The term por.nei´a lays emphasis on both the lewd
    nature and the intent of the person's conduct, and it
    embraces all illicit sexual activity characteristic of that
    found in a house of prostitution.

    Copulation (as in penetration) is not necessary to
    constitute por.nei'a, and neither is sexual climax.

    In borderline cases, it is the responsibility of the
    judicial committee to weigh carefully the Scriptures
    and the particular facts in the case to determine
    whether por.nei'a was involved.

    This responsibility should not be taken lightly,
    especially when Scriptural freedom to remarry is
    involved. (Mal. 2:16a)


    Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defec-
    tion, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false
    doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its
    holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh.
    22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18;
    2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4)

    Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with
    mercifully. (Jude 22, 23; w82 9/1 pp. 20-1;w80 8/1
    pp. 21-2)

    Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of
    Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated
    people. (Jer. 17:13; 23:15; 28:15, 16; 2 Thess. 2:9, 10)

    Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and
    speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
    by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.

    If it is learned that a person has taken up association with
    another religious organization, the matter should be inves-
    tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed.

    If it is clearly established that the person has joined
    another religion and intends to remain with it, the


    "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock"

    elders would make a brief announcement to the congre-
    gation that such- one has disassociated himself. (w86
    10/15 p. 31 )

    Working secularly for a false religious organization could
    put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false
    doctrine. (2 Cor. 6:14-16)

    Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to
    performing any other act of false worship. (Jer. 7:16-19)

    The Bible condemns the following:

    Causing divisions and promoting sects.

    This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity
    of the congregation or undermining the confidence
    of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement.

    It may involve or lead to apostasy. (Rom. 16:
    17, 18; Titus 3:10, 11 )

    The practice of spiritism. (Deut. 18:9-13; I Cor. 10: 21, 22; Gal. 5:20)

    Idolatry. ( I Cor. 6:9, 10; 10:14)

    Idolatry includes the possession and use of images
    and pictures that are employed in false religion.

    Drunkenness. (I Cor. 5:11; 6:9,10; it-l p. 656)

    Stealing, thievery, fraud. (Lev. 6:2, 4; I Cor. 6:9, 10; Eph. 4:28; it-l p. 870)

    Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false witness. (Prov. 6: 16, 19; Col. 3:9; Rev. 22:15; it-2 pp. 244-5)

    Reviling; slander. (Lev. 19:16; I Cor. 6:10; it-l pp. 989-91; it-2 pp. 801-2)

    Obscene speech. (Eph. 5:3-5; Col. 3:8)

    Failure to abstain from blood. (Gen. 9:4; Acts 15:20, 28, 29)

    Greed‹gambling, extortion. (I Cor. 5:10, 11; 6:10; I Tim. 3:8; it-l pp. 1005-6)

    Adamant refusal to provide materially for one's ovn family‹leaving wife and children destitute when having the

    UNIT 5 (a)


    means to provide. ( 1 Tim. 5:8; w88 11/1 pp. 22-3; km
    9/73 p. 8)

    Nonneutral activitics. ( Isa. 2:4;John 6:15; 17:16)

    Fits of anger, violence. (Prov. 22:24, 25; Mal. 2:16; Gal.

    Misuse of tobacco or addictive drugs (2 Cor. 7:1; Mark
    15:23; Rev. 21:8, Int.; 22:15, Int. )

    Loose conduct. Term not restricted to sexual immorality.
    (Gal. 5:19, Ref.. Bi., ftn.; 2 Pet. 2:7, Ref.. Bi., ftn.; w83
    3/15 p. 31; w73 9/15 pp. 574-6; it-2 p. 264)

    SUMMARY: There are varying degrees of wrongdoing.
    At times there may have been an overlapping of sins, and
    this must be discerned in order to determine the proper
    Scriptural view of a person's conduct. In all cases, elders
    should carefully weigh each situation or circumstance.
    They need to find out what actually occurred, the extent
    and nature of misconduct, intent and motive, frequency
    or practice, and so forth. Good judgment, reasonableness,
    and balance are necessary as elders assess conduct in the
    light of the Scriptures.

  • Out at Last!
    Out at Last!

    Are the two sisters baptized? I know that their dad is way into it and uses all of his TV time to the fullest with the hats and shirts, but what of the girls?

  • WTWizard

    "Adamant refusal to provide materially for one's own family, leaving wife and children destitute when having the means to provide."

    I noticed this clause--then why does the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger hound people that are barely making it as is to quit their jobs and pio-sneer? Wouldn't that too leave families destitute? Or, encouraging people that are barely making ends meet to put $20 bills into the Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund like they are blank pieces of paper? Note that I have seen examples of these.

    Then, they are setting up people to not have the means to provide. Even though they are lying and saying that this Depression is done, we are still in a Depression. Unemployment is still climbing, albeit slowing down (still, we have almost 10% collecting unemployment benefits and another 10% having exhausted their benefits; another 10% or more are working part time and are not counted). Once you are unemployed, you are likely to stay that way--those jobs are not coming back. Yet, more high school dropouts and those with only high school education were fired during this Depression than those with college degrees. Note that, about two years before this Depression began, the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger told the witlesses that they are not to go to college. Even as the Depression was taking shape, they compared college with a head shot, and threatened to take "privileges" from anyone letting their children go to college. Result: Most of those witlesses are going to be destitute, if they are not already.

    So they can start cleaning businesses? There are only so many windows to wash, so many toilets and floors to scrub. As a result of the Depression, companies are doing their own cleaning work--employees cleaning their own toilets and floors, or outsourcing to immigrant companies that can do it for much less than the witlesses will (and usually do a better job, with less arguing about Bible or washtowel doctrine). They are also willing to wait longer before washing the windows or strip-waxing their floors, meaning less business for those witlesses that are starting cleaning businesses. And, with less business, there is less income. Less income means this is not the solution.

    Therefore, shouldn't the humanoid that told the witlesses that college and a head shot are the same be disfellowshipped for willfully not allowing people to support their families? As should anyone that pio-sneers while unemployed, instead of hunting for work or heading off to college (and all those who hound such people to pio-sneer)?

  • Gozz

    That's where the very flexible definition of "loose conduct" comes in handy.

    Of course, the lineswoman isn't an elder, but, couldn't Ms. S. Williams be reasonably accuse of defaming Jehovah's name? And to think the Slate writer ( contacted the Public Information office, and Brother Hemmelgarn ( Bryce Hemmelgarn of the Watchtower Office of Public Information) ... this is the same office that lied and lied about the JW involvement with the UN.


  • blondie

    Neither Williams sister is baptized. They were unbaptized publishers at one time with the West Palm Beach congregation in Florida but find that hard to believe that is true any more.

  • isaacaustin

    I know of a case where a pedophile attends the hall, and shoved and elder. And guess who ended up taking the brunt of it? The elder got deleted.

  • jamiebowers
    I know of a case where a pedophile attends the hall, and shoved and elder. And guess who ended up taking the brunt of it? The elder got deleted.

    How sick are these people?

  • isaacaustin

    The pedo liked to taunt this particular elder and his wife for trying to warn others of him. And he decided to go behind the book counter to get his own lit. This elder went over and said 'excuse me, you do not just walk behind the counter...'.....the pedo shoved him and told him he does nto listen to him. The elders delted the elder and told him his speaking to the man upset him. The obvious agenda was to out the elder because of his outspokenness on pedophila.

Share this