70 weeks - Xerxes, Artaxerxes: How weak is the WT position cmp. to 607?

by bohm 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    I stand by my assertion that there are numerous worms in these opened cans, with the proponent of each worm passionately promoting their view as being the correct one. The position by the WTS is but one view, and is open to serious challenge on several counts.

    I leave the discussion to our qualified contributors, and I am pleased to learn from them. As an indication of a couple of divergent views on just one point, I refer you to the following sites, one of which I believe would be applauded by at least one of our scholarly contributors.



  • AnnOMaly

    Leolaia and Narkissos - I know there are a few interpretations of the 70 weeks, but my knowledge of them is sketchy - it was either Cyrus' word or Artaxerxes' word. So I hadn't considered 'the word of Yahweh' as a possible starting point. Hmm.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Leo and Nakissos,

    Is the following a correct application of your information?

    1. The 70 years were a declaration of the time limit of Babylon’s power. That period ended when Babylon fell to the Persians.

    2. Daniel 9 is set at a time after Babylon had been defeated; hence the 70 years had finished.

    3. From his studying/understanding of Jeremiah, Daniel realised that Jeremiah said the return to Jerusalem required a revolution in their attitude along with confession of their sin.

    4. The answer came that, although Daniel’s prayer had been heard, the people had not yet put an end to their sinful ways. For this reason, the Jews’ punishment would continue. They had failed to heed God’s proclamation that Babylon would be dominant over them for 70 years, but now the Jews would be required to serve a period that was 7 times greater – 7 times 70 – but this time their servitude was to God. During this greater period of punishment, the nation was to demonstrate that it had truly changed its relationship with God.

    “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression , to put an end to sin , to atone for wickedness , to bring in everlasting righteousness , to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy .

    5. For this to take place, the nation’s religious functioning needed to be restored and obeyed (which answered Daniel’s prayer). The experiment with kings had ended, and now came the opportunity to ensure that God’s chosen nation would never again suffer the ignominy of domination by another nation. (Would not a cynic say that these words were written by the ideologues, the puritanical Jews, in an effort to ensure their power and influence?)

    6. So when did this new period of testing begin? From the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild the city. By whom is that statement to “restore and rebuild” made? Not likely by a heathen king, since much is conveyed with “restoration” and “rebuilding” a people as well as a city. It is most likely that it refers to utterances of the word of God to restore the city as spoken through Jeremiah. That is where Daniel would have read of the promised return.

    “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree (dabar) to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    Have a look at the piece by Daniel Pierce that I refer to in the post above yours.


  • Narkissos


    This I think is a very helpful outline of how the basic 'logic' of the 70 x 7 'prophecy' works. In the detail, though, I'm not so sure. For instance, I believe that "Babylon's power" is only one of several interpretations of the "70 years" within the OT corpus and even within the extant book of Jeremiah (we have had this discussion with AnnOMaly not too long ago). So it is uncertain to me whether the author of Daniel refers to this interpretation a priori of the 70 years (his interpretation a posteriori being the 70 x 7) or another: what inclines me to think that he rather has the 70 / 70 X 7 years start with Jerusalem's fall than an earlier date is that (1) he connects the 70 years with "the devastation of Jerusalem" and nothing else in v. 2; (2) he apparently identifies the time of the exile with the first seven weeks = 49 years of the 70 x 7 period (v. 25).

  • JWoods

    Uhm - did anybody else notice that NOTHING HAPPENED in 1914?

    1914 is the ONLY REASON for the Jehovah's Witnesses to hold onto this stupid 607 BCE nonsense. Their apostate population (yes, that is we the people here) are probably the only ones they have that remember all the twisted linkage of how these ancients came up with the number. After, of course, also the 1874, 1918, 1925, 1975, etc.

    It is meaningless not because of ArtaXerxes, the ancient manuscripts, Freddy, and the rest -

    It is meaningless because it did not work. And nothing now in the 21st century can ever make any change in false prophecy done and exposed.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Here is a different approach to the 607 question. The JW premise is impossible to sustain - utterly, completely, mathematically, scripturally unsupportable.



  • Narkissos

    LOL. How about reading before posting? :)

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