I need some assistance!

by lepermessiah 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • lepermessiah

    HI All,

    I have been posting on here this week, and all I can say is this has been the best form of therapy! There are some AMAZING people on here, many who have been through the same thing, if not much worse. There are so many of you that I would love to converse with, but understand why this format is for the best at this time.

    I am in the early stages of breaking the chains that bind, and I need some suggestions on reasoning on these 2 points. I have tried to search through the various archives as I am sure there is a lot of good info, but if you can help point me in the right direction, share your story, etc...I would appreciate it:

    1) Hebrews 10:24,25 and meeting attendance.

    2) Matthew Chapters 24 and 28 discussing the ministry, particularly the door-to-door work.

    I have a couple of family members who are as disgusted as I am in regards to numerous events and experiences over the last few years, but they keep telling me that "well, the bible says that we need to go to meetings and go out in the ministry, so I intend to keep on doing that". I am playing things REALLY close to the vest right now, so I am trying to figure out ways to say it without saying "I cannot in good conscience place this literature with people, nor do I want to attend a meeting that is just going to leave me in a pissed-off, fired up mood". Having been on the other side of the table, I know you have to walk a very fine line so as not to be labeled as an apostate, bad influence, $hit-stirrer , etc.

    My biggest thing right now (which is honest and nice and vague at the same time) is simply saying that I am so turned off by the hypocrisy I have witnessed that it has affected my desire to go.

    Your help is appreciated!

  • angel eyes
    angel eyes

    hi..you have a pm :)

  • leavingwt

    This book discusses these topics at length, from a Biblical perspective:

    In Search of Christian Freedom

    It is available in downloadable PDF format, softcover and hardcover.

    Available, here, in several languages:


  • bluecanary

    EDIT: This stupid thing will not let me edit the format of this post. Meh.

    Welcome lepermessiah!

    You've probably already seen it, but check out this thread.

    Unfortunately, those two questions are not in my body of research. I'm sure someone else can post some info. Based on what others have said about fading, I would recommend a sort of "It's not you--it's me" approach. Tell them you are emotionally exhausted, rather than mentioning doubts if you want a clean fade. I will offer you this quote from Ray Franz in Crisis of Conscious in regard to the Christian congregation:

    “I believed that, whatever the arrangement, its purpose and function, its very existence, was only as an aid for the brothers; it was there to serve their interests, not the other way around. Whatever the arrangement, it was to build men and women up so that they would not be spiritual babes, dependent on men or on an institutionalized system, but able to act as full-grown, mature Christians. It was not to train them to be simply conformists to a set of organizational rules and regulations, but to help them become persons “having their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.”
  • TD
    Hebrews 10:24,25 and meeting attendance.

    Burden of proof is always on the claimant. (i.e. The JW in this case)

    First: The author of Hebrews was not speaking over the heads of his immediate audience across the expanse of time to us today. That view is an exegetical fallacy called, "The invisible interpreter." The author of Hebrews was giving specific advice to a specific audience in regard to a specific problem at a specific time in the early history of Christianity. Part of the problem here is we don't know exactly what this problem was. Hebrew Christians apparently were reluctant to participate in these communal gatherings, perhaps because of the presence of Gentile Christians (?)

    Second: What is the connection between the communal gatherings of primitive Christianity which primarily revolved around shared meals and the formal study sessions of JW's today? If the author of Hebrews is talking about something fundamentally different than what JW's practice today, then the connection is contrived.

    Third, the strongest advice is still only advice. The relevance of this advice would depend on the extent to which the situation today parallels the original, not on the extent to which the advice can be stripped of its context.

  • oompa

    i like you just being pissed off from the hyprocisy........and quitting as in stop going and fade......make no other issues as they prob can eventually support your position since they feel the same way........good luck.......oompa

  • cognac

    This is how I feel about the preaching work. The idea was to preach the resurrection and Jesus coming to the entire inhabited earth. - That was already done - In the first century. That's how we got Christianity in general. Out of that was formed different sects that we are not supposed to follow. There is a scripture that says that people will come and say "I am the Christ. Do not follow them." The Greek word for Christ is "annointed".

  • xelder

    According to the NWT "Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together"

    Since Jews attended the synagogue on sabbath at the most, is it reasonable that Christian meetings attended by fleshly Jews were more than once a week? If that? And what is the definition of "forsake". It carries the idea of never ever going to a Christian gathering of any kind ever again, it certainly doesn't mean that you aren't at all 5 meetings a week. The only 5 in Hebrews is the in the verse number "25" which was added centuries later. Did the Galation congregation meet as often as the Romans, or the Corinthians? Who knows?

    How about congregations in Roman cities? Many of the christians were slaves. Do you think their non-christian masters let them go to meetings, and if not, did Paul condemn them for something out of their control?

    With the way Jewish women were viewed in their society. Is it realistic to assume that groups of them went door to door? Of course, there were excellent female evangelizers, but their forum seems usually to be informal.

    If you go door to door today, what if you find interest? Can you in good conscience teach Watchtower chronology? Can you encourage a person to join a group who could later, very well be shunning them over a conscience matter like blood.

  • WhereWasI

    OMG Cognac, excellent point: Christ means annointed.

    "Some will say I am the Christ (annointed) do not follow them."

    You know they really are shooting themselves in the foot right in front of the eyes of the rank and file. If only they could see.


  • Alwayshere

    lepermessiah, First go to Acts 2 verses 16-17. The last days begin in 33C.E. Hebrews 10 verses 24-25 the day drawing near was the one for the early Christains and it ended in 70 C.E. The good news was preached before the end came. Matthew 24: 19-20 was also fullfilled before the end came. The whole chapter of Matthew was fullfilled during the generation of the early Christains. Read Matthew 24:34. And Jesus said at Matthew24:21 there would not be another great tribulation. The great tribulation fell in 70 C.E. The Watchtower Society says there is a greater tribulation but Jesus never said that. Who do you want to believe ? Jesus or WS?

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