Phone call to Watchtower concerning California kidnapping case and possible Witness connection

by the research lady 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie

    So what does "nominal" mean? If someone has never been baptized or has not attended meetings for years, should they be considered jws and should this crime be leveled at the WTS? I don't think so. Should people who have studied with jws for a couple of years be considered jws; not in my book or were "raised" around a jw family but never got baptized.

    I agree that the WTS probably has little knowledge of who are jws except pioneers, elders, cos, dos, etc. In general, even they would have to call the local congregation elders (taking a guess which one they might attend if they attend at all). Only the local congregations keep the publisher cards and they only turn in numbers not names to the WTS each month.

  • minimus

    So, are they JWs or not?

  • JWoods

    I think they must have been pretty far out on the fringes of the JW world if this was JW connection was at all real.

    On the other hand, isn't it typical JW knee-jerk to not just truthfully say they were not regular witnesses (even if they had attended a little, or left years ago)? Why this garble and fade when a simple statement would have been far better?

    What if these people had been stated to be Mormons? (an apt thought excercise in light of the Mormon offshoot tendency toward modern day polymarriage to minors) -

    I can betcha for sure the Mormons would have been out front on the subject - supporting the kidnapped girl and family, and stating the exact facts to ward off media speculations. Remember the Salt Lake City girl - kidnapped but found a year or so later? No funny business about religion there.

    This secretive behavior is what makes the JWs and the mysterious nature of the Watchtower Society/Governing Body so vulnerable when this kind of tragedy happens...

  • blondie

    I guess min no one has done enough research on it or is qualified enough to know.

  • minimus

    Well, find out, Blondie!

  • blondie

    Sorry, have to do my comments and I'm on vacation. I have made my comments on this already.

  • JWoods

    Best evidence seems to be his lawyers statement upon arraignment which is documented. This, of course, does NOT mean they were really witnesses - just that this was stated in court by the guy's lawyer. But -

    Lawyers are not supposed to lie in court for their client by strict rules of ethics - so he must think the kidnapper has some connection.

    BTW - I don't think we ex-JWs should do anything to appear we are gloating over this even if JW angle is true. As ex-JWs (which these people probably really were), we too can get painted by the same brush in a manner of thinking.

  • Satanus


    Nominal christian, has to do w the name. Here are some examples of the wt's broad brush strokes:

    *** yb92 p. 72 Kenya and Nearby Countries ***

    Today, two thirds of Kenya’s population are nominal Christians, while in the whole of Eastern Africa, the figure is just under half.

    *** w64 11/1 p. 646 Wolves in Sheep’s Covering ***

    Promotion of the clergy-laity distinction among nominal Christians paved the way for harsh and autocratic rule of the masses, lacking in tenderness and love

    *** yb74 p. 35 Central African Republic ***

    Some have become nominal Christians because it was the popular thing to do. Others felt they had no choice. “When the priest came to school,” says one person, “I and other students fled into the bush so we would not be forced to become Catholic. But we were pursued and brought back and just had to listen and become Catholic.”

    *** w06 12/15 p. 3 The Christmas Spirit All Year Round? ***

    MILLIONS of people are familiar with these words of God’s angels announcing the birth of Jesus to shepherds who were watching over their flocks by night. At about the date that the churches claim that Jesus was born, many nominal Christians make a special effort to improve their behavior. The seasonal attention to joy, peace, and goodwill—qualities mentioned in the angelic proclamation—is often referred to as the Christmas spirit.

    *** w05 6/15 pp. 11-12 Philo of Alexandria—Mixing Scripture With Speculation ***

    Philo’s writings led to a religious revolution. His influence led nominal Christians to adopt the unscriptural doctrine of the immortality of the soul. And Philo’s teaching about the Logos (or, Word) contributed to the development of the Trinity, a non-Biblical dogma of apostate Christianity.


    These are just a few. The wt loves to unmake a jw at the drop of a hat, or the missing of a month of field circus, or any one of many of it's standards. It loves to blanket label christians as false by calling them nominal. It loves to apply it's standards and subsequently it's labells to millions of people without so much as a second thought about how those people might rerspond. It takes no account. Rejecting the wt standards and applying more standardized ones is legitamate practice. It is also fair to use terms on the wt and its followers that the wt carelessy applies to others. That the wt may not accept those followers as true followers, is not relavent, because the level of devotion to the wt by those followers is similar of the devotion to christianity of those that the wt casually labells niminal christian.


  • Borgia

    Had he been a JW in good standing ..... the elders have to shamefully admit they did not do their job to which they are appointed.

    Had he been an inactive JW .... again, the elders have to shamefully admit they did not do their job to which they are appointed

    I really have to wonder why there is no simple short announcement to the public by the local cong to deny he was a JW. ..... This silence is very damaging to the image of the "Christian Congregation" ...

    - politically completely insensitive

    - the man was in effect a JW but they too screwed up

    - the man has never been a JW and they (teleprompted by the legal desk) think it will pass overhead (BTW are there any JW going out in the fieldcircus in that town these days?)

    - any other options?

    But looking at it from a cool analyzing perspective: me thinks Antioch is a very good place to fade.



  • koolaid-man

    The relavant point of this topic is simply the fact that a dangerous and destructive cult is brought into the "lime light". As of late, the Org. is receiving much bad press and it is putting them in a defensive mode. Without doubt, active Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as the general public, have noticed what is being said about the Witnesses on T.V. and in newspapers. The rash of recent murders, kidnappings, tortures, molestings, and connecting just the term "Jehovah's Witness" to the reports certainly "speaks volumes" for those exposing the Watchtower org. The strict policies and teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses are deliberately designed to "paint a bad picture" of every thing and every body. They don't "cut anyone any slack". Over 12,000 references in Watchtower publications condemn Christendom and how evil and un Godly their clergy are.The Watchtower takes every opportunity, every single bit of information they can to condemn and destroy all those outside the Org. So when people who have been adversely "touched by the tentacles of the Watchtower" speak out to alarm the world of the dangers of the Watchtower org. I don't draw the quick conclusion that this should be termed as "sensationalism". Whether one is a Governing Body member, a Circuit Overseer, Elder, Pioneer, loyal Witness ,Baptised Publisher, Unbaptised Publisher, or interested person studying with the Witnesses. it is irelavant. What only matters to me is I caught the term "Jehovah's Witness" tied in to these with unthinkable, horrific crimes.

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