Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 31 August 2009

by LUKEWARM 13 Replies latest jw friends


    *** lv chap. 9 pp. 97-109 "Flee From Fornication" ***


    Q13. Who was Dinah, and why was her choice of friends unwise?13 As we saw in Chapter 3, our friends can exert a powerful influence on us for good or for bad. (Proverbs 13:20; 1 Corinthians 15:33) Consider the example of Dinah, a daughter of the patriarch Jacob. (Genesis 34:1) Despite her good upbringing, Dinah unwisely made friends with Canaanite girls. Like the Moabites, the Canaanites were notoriously immoral. (Leviticus 18:6-25) In the eyes of Canaanite men, including Shechem-"the most honorable" of his father's household-Dinah seemed to be legitimate prey.-Genesis 34:18, 19.

    "...our friends can exert a powerful influence on us for good or for bad." -

    Q14. How did Dinah's choice of friends lead to tragedy?14 Dinah probably did not have sexual relations in mind when she saw Shechem. He, though, did what most Canaanites would have considered natural when sexually aroused. Any last-minute resistance on Dinah's part meant little, for he "took her" and "violated her." It seems that Shechem later "fell in love" with Dinah, but that did not change what he had done to her. (Genesis 34:1-4) And Dinah was not the only one to suffer as a result. Her choice of associates triggered events that brought disgrace and reproach on her whole family.-Genesis 34:7, 25-31; Galatians 6:7, 8.

    Why "probably" and "it seems"?

    Q15, 16. How can we gain true wisdom? (See also the box on page 109.)15 If Dinah learned an important lesson, she learned it the hard way. Those who love and obey Jehovah do not have to learn life's lessons the hard way. Because they listen to God, they choose to 'walk with wise persons.' (Proverbs 13:20a) Thus they come to understand "the entire course of what is good" and avoid needless problems and pains.-Proverbs 2:6-9; Psalm 1:1-3.

    Who are 'wise persons'? Only JW's?

    "...obey Jehovah" or the WTS interpretation of a matter?

    "...entire course of what is good" - Is that learning the principles Jesus taught and exercising individual conscience or adopting the whole body of theocratic "truth" as determined by the WTS?

    16 Godly wisdom is available to all who yearn for it and who act on that yearning by persisting in prayer and by regularly studying God's Word and the material provided by the faithful slave class. (Matthew 24:45; James 1:5) Also important is humility, which is reflected in a willingness to heed Scriptural counsel. (2 Kings 22:18, 19) For example, a Christian may accept in principle that his heart can be treacherous and desperate. (Jeremiah 17:9) But when the situation calls for it, is he humble enough to accept specific, loving counsel and help?

    "...material provided by the faithful slave class" - in other words, the anointed as a body have no say regarding doctrine, this is what the 10 or so members of the GB have determined doctrine is

    "Also important is humility..." - Where is the humility in the GB elevating themselves above all other anointed ones and arrogantly disregarding alternative views?

    "O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad."-Psalm 97:10.

    "Everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."-Matthew 5:28.

    "He that practices fornication is sinning against his own body."-1 Corinthians 6:18.

    "I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow."-1 Corinthians 9:27.

    "Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap; because he who is sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but he who is sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit."-Galatians 6:7, 8.

    "Deaden, therefore, your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite."-Colossians 3:5.

    "Each one of you should know how to get possession of his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in covetous sexual appetite."-1 Thessalonians 4:4, 5.

    Q17. Describe a situation that may arise within a family, and show how a father might reason with his daughter.17 Imagine this situation. A father does not allow his daughter and a young Christian man to go out unchaperoned. The girl responds: "But Dad, don't you trust me? We won't do anything wrong!" She may love Jehovah and have the best of intentions, yet is she "walking in [godly] wisdom"? Is she 'fleeing from fornication'? Or is she foolishly "trusting in [her] own heart"? (Proverbs 28:26) Perhaps you can think of additional principles that would assist such a father and his daughter in reasoning on the matter.-See Proverbs 22:3; Matthew 6:13; 26:41.

    Where is the wife in this example? The WTS expects parents to "reason" with their children but when it comes to people reasoning with them on differing viewpoints, they are totally dismissive and arrogant


    Q18, 19. What temptation arose in Joseph's life, and how did he deal with it?18 A fine young person who loved God and fled from fornication was Joseph, Dinah's half brother. (Genesis 30:20-24) As a child, Joseph saw firsthand the fruits of his sister's folly. No doubt these memories, as well as Joseph's desire to remain in God's love, protected him years later in Egypt when his master's wife tried to seduce him "day after day." Of course, as a slave Joseph could not simply hand in his resignation and leave! He had to deal with the situation wisely and courageously. This he did by repeatedly saying no to Potiphar's wife and, in the end, by fleeing from her.-Genesis 39:7-12.

    19 Consider: If Joseph had fantasized about the woman or had habitually daydreamed about sex, would he have been able to keep his integrity? Most likely not. Instead of entertaining sinful thoughts, Joseph prized his relationship with Jehovah, which was evident in his words to Potiphar's wife. "My master," he would say, "has not withheld from me anything at all except you, because you are his wife. So how could I commit this great badness and actually sin against God?"-Genesis 39:8, 9.

    Q20. How did Jehovah maneuver matters in the case of Joseph?20 Imagine the joy that Jehovah must have felt as he observed young Joseph, far from his family, maintaining his integrity day after day. (Proverbs 27:11) Later, Jehovah maneuvered matters so that Joseph was not only released from prison but also made Egypt's prime minister and food administrator! (Genesis 41:39-49) How true the words of Psalm 97:10: "O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad. He is guarding the souls of his loyal ones; out of the hand of the wicked ones he delivers them"!

    Considering Joseph became "...Egypt's prime minister and food administrator!" why did so many spend time in prison because the WTS said they could not do civilian service?

    Q21. How did a young brother in an African land show moral courage?21 Likewise today, many servants of God demonstrate that they "hate what is bad, and love what is good." (Amos 5:15) A young brother in an African land recalls that a female classmate boldly offered him sex in exchange for his help during a mathematics test. "I immediately rejected her offer," he says. "By maintaining integrity, I have kept my dignity and self-respect, which are far more valuable than gold and silver." True, sin may give "temporary enjoyment," but such cheap thrills often bring much pain. (Hebrews 11:25) Moreover, they pale into insignificance when compared with the lasting happiness that results from obedience to Jehovah.-Proverbs 10:22.

    "...obedience to Jehovah" or the WTS - or is that the same?

  • insearchoftruth

    Thanks again Lukewarm.....guess this week they will learn that anyone who is not associated with Jehovah's organization only has sex on thier!

  • boyzone
    Imagine this situation. A father does not allow his daughter and a young Christian man to go out unchaperoned. The girl responds: "But Dad, don't you trust me? We won't do anything wrong!" She may love Jehovah and have the best of intentions, yet is she "walking in [godly] wisdom"? Is she 'fleeing from fornication'? Or is she foolishly "trusting in [her] own heart"?

    What a stupid thing to write. This shows that the father doesn't believe his daughters faith is strong enough not to stop her leaping on the first guy who takes an interest. And what about the young man? How insulting to presume that his faith means nothing to him and he's going to want sex with the girl as soon as they're on their own!

    The father is showing the same level of distrust and the same need to control that the Society show to all Witnesses.

    Thanks for the study Lukewarm.

  • WTWizard

    First, I will say that independent thinkers will not automatically do what their friends do or suggest. Truly independent thinkers who are morally upright will think of whether a decision is going to be good or bad for self and/or society. If neither, personal preference should be all that decides what action will or will not be taken. Why does anyone need a washtowel or Kingdumb Misery article to tell them what to do--if you do, you are morally and spiritually weak.

    I wonder why the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger wastes so much time equating morality with sexual chastity, unless they really want me to be celibate for life. Before I became a witless, I would think of an immoral person as one with a tendency to lie, cheat, and steal. A moral person was one that told the truth and played fair whenever possible. Then the Washtowel Slaveholdery comes along and puts a sexual bias on "morality".

    Fact is, the "lie, cheat, and steal" definition of morality comes a lot closer to the real definition of morality. Most of the time, lying, cheating, and stealing are bad for oneself and/or society and are therefore immoral. Sex, however, is not usually bad for self and/or society (it might be, however, if one is having an affair behind one's partner's back or the other partner has a disease like AIDS and is not forthright about it). Most of the time, sex falls under the "amoral" category--neither good nor bad for society, and fulfilling one's urge for self. Sex can, and often does, fit the definition of "moral"--if it expresses true love for each other (and oral or anal sex can do this very nicely), produces children, or if it disqualifies one or both parties from the Value Destroyer Training School (and prevents the Washtowel from seizing the governments).

    In fact, abstaining from sex and then attaching any virtue to it is immoral and morally filthy. And especially sticking one's nose in others' business in the bedroom or intentionally setting someone up for celibacy to get them to qualify for any "privilege(??)" is very morally filthy, and is very immoral.

  • straightshooter

    I loved your comment on Q20 about no civilian service.

    Also Joseph became an important government official, but JW are prohibited from being elected to any government office.

  • insearchoftruth

    The husband of the wife who is leading my wife's study called me out almost the first time we chatted about me being a civil servant.......

  • cameo-d

    Once again WT misses the mark and the point of the story.

    Again, they have twisted everything to accomodate their voyeuristic sexual pervisions.

    Other scholars who have studied more deeply the words and translations paint a very different story.

    The word "rape" is never mentioned in this story. Nor does the story tell us that Dinah resisted, as WT puts its own spin on things.

    Some say the word "defiled" does not translate as "forced sex", but rather "illicit (unmarried) sex".

    It has been speculated that the two of them had a secret consentual relationship.


    In 34:3 Shechem fell in love with Dinah and was willing to marry her.

    The intentions of Hamor and Shechem were about honor, love, economic advancement, cooperation, and trade [1]

    The deceit, slaughter, and treachery by Simeon and Levi robbed Dinah of a chance to marry her love and find security in a loving relationship. [2]

    The cruelty of the sons of Jacob was an injustice to Dinah, her husband Shechem, as well as the city of Shechem. [3]

    Judgment upon the irrationality of the sons of Jacob was a warning, given later by Jacob, concerning their abuse of power that dominated Israel.

    So really, this story is about abuse of power, trickery, deceit, and mass murder.

    Since WT is guilty of these same things, it is hard for them to see these vices as a real issue.

    They seem to make every bible story into some sexual perversion to fit their agenda of monitoring everyone's sex life. This is really disgusting.

  • cameo-d

    It was not Dinah's Unwise Choice; it was the unwise choice of Jacob's sons!!!

    Here was an opportunity for these two families and nations to live together in peace and prosperity yet Jacob's sons inherited the same evil heart of deceit that that their father had.

    Rather than allow his daughter a happy life with a man who loved her and as the son of a king could provide well for her, their murderous hearts prevailed.

    They profaned their own sacred rituals in the deceit.

    They agreed to the marriage, then made it conditional upon having all of the men of the town be circumsized. The peace-loving agreeable people of Shechem agreed to do this thing that they all might become true brothers.

    It was a trick all along and a power play. There was never any sincerity. For when the men were weak after the circumcision, the sons of Jacob went into the town and slaughtered them.

    Those who choose peace and brotherhood are often the ones slaughtered by those who seek to rule by violence and clever tricks.

  • cameo-d

    forgot to give link.

    Very interesting discourse on the subject here: (however I do not agree with what is said about Jacob)

  • undercover
    I will say that independent thinkers will not automatically do what their friends do or suggest.

    Therein lies the problem. People raised as JWs are not independant thinkers. They don't know how to think. They've been manipulated their whole lives. Thus they are open to suggestions of others who are manipulative.

    Another way of looking at it...if JWs are raised to believe that if they don't follow the rules, something awful will happen, they self fulfill the "prophecy" when they break a rule. They expect the worst, they get the worst.

    Take the daughter. Say she manages to talk her dad to allow her to go on a date unchaperoned. Deep down, she knows it's against the rules and something bad is bound to happen, thus leaving her open to the suggestion of doing bad when the situation presents itself.

    It sounds like pyshcobabble bullshit, I know, but the WTS sets JWs up to fail and then when they do, they can say, "We told you so. Why don't you listen?" making them look inspired and wise.

Share this