Ve Vil Choose Who Takes Ze Emblems

by Englishman 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Englishman

  This is a spin-off to Scully's stunning account of mistreatment at the hands of JW elders.

  Scully was refused the emblems at a Memorial celebration. This happened once to me also, just after my Father had died. Stupidly, my wife and I agreed to accompany my Mother to a Memorial. When the emblems came along, the server whisked them away from the person on my left and handed them to my wife, who was sat on my right. Twice. Now, leaving the personal experience to one side, I find myself asking the same question as I did back then:

  Is it WTBTS policy to choose who can or can not be offered the emblems?

  I can't find any reference to this policy anywhere, are there any ex-elders out there who can enlighten me as to whether this is approved policy? Or is it just the individual congregations who set about limiting a persons choice of partaking of the emblems by physically preventing a person from so doing?

  I confess to being extremely intrigued.

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
• 

  Valis

  In my experience, everyone who attended passover got to pass the sacraments, even those who were not active JWs. The only rule in effect was that the 144k were the only ones that could partake. I only ever saw two people partake in ym time w/JWland. In Scully's instance, it may have been that they assumed while she was caring for her child she may have spilled the sacraments, thereby ruining their oh so special ocassion. If you aren't welcome at passover, you never make it into the hall, this I know, because my redneck dad was usually asked to deal w/anyone not found appropriate to enter the hall, or an assembly, etc...
• 

  Englishman

  Valis,

  It just occured to me, maybe DF'd persons are refused because they might try to compromise the "not even eating with such a person" brigade. A disfellowsippee nibbling on unleavened bread in a KH would maybe compromise every loyal dub present, perhaps?

  Could be.

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Englishman,

  a very good question

  and a true life experience.

  From peronal knowledge, it was and I do presume

  it is still today, the elder look - not so much -

  at the act in itself i.e. the taking of the emblems

  but who is taking them, the age, how long etc.etc.

  If they have "some doubts...", they will question the

  person to make sure that "their professing to belong

  to the anointed ..." it is not some emotional, whim

  of irrational choice dictated by who knows what.

  To give you another life ex. - a sister in her early

  forties, partook the emblems...for the firt time...

  after the regular ..call it was ascertained that

  she did it a particular state of mind: "... depression .."

  so the elders did not count her as an anointed one.

  I hope this will be useful,

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
• 

  Englishman

  Hi Mac!

  Nice to hear from you again.

  I didn't know that the elders would attempt to withold the eblems from certain persons as a matter of routine.

  That's terrible! What a violation of freedom of choice! BLEAH!

  Englishman

  Bring on the dancing girls!
• 

  Valis

  No one was supposed to take the sacrament unless they were of the 144,000 EVER, as it was supposed to symbolize the covenant between Jesus and the 144,000 who got to go to the big Kingdom Hall in the sky to become judges, etc.., not the rest of us who were merely doomed to live in a paradise on earth..... Even DFed ones who wanted to come back were welcome at passover, just like inactives, newcomers, etc...
• 

  Englishman

  Valis,

  I appreciate what you are saying. But, are JW's reaching the stage where only accepted "anointed one's" will be even offered the emblems?

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
• 

  Valis

  Lots of the "annointed ones" fell out of favor w/the society, so yes there were always those who were denied the sacrament. Most of them are dead by now though, seeing as if they were born before 1914, they would be an average age of 87 if not older.
• 

  mommy

  LOL I love the title Eman I didn't get it until I opened the thread though. I know I heard my father speaking of passing over certain ones who might cause trouble. I also remember as a kid watching the whole procession from front to back, as each one was passed, and I do remember that an effort was made to pass over a few.

  Is it fair? I don't think so, going along with their own doctrines they should allow all to pass up on partaking. If the emblems are not even placed in their hands then they made the choice for them, wouldn't you say.
  wendy

  When I leave, you will know I have been here
• 

  Scully

  This is a spin-off to Scully's stunning account of mistreatment at the hands of JW elders.

  Scully was refused the emblems at a Memorial celebration. This happened once to me also, just after my Father had died. Stupidly, my wife and I agreed to accompany my Mother to a Memorial. When the emblems came along, the server whisked them away from the person on my left and handed them to my wife, who was sat on my right. Twice. Now, leaving the personal experience to one side, I find myself asking the same question as I did back then:

  Is it WTBTS policy to choose who can or can not be offered the emblems?

  I can't find any reference to this policy anywhere, are there any ex-elders out there who can enlighten me as to whether this is approved policy? Or is it just the individual congregations who set about limiting a persons choice of partaking of the emblems by physically preventing a person from so doing?

  Thanks for addressing the topic here, E-man. I do love your posts!

  The 'rationale' that was used when the incident occurred was first of all that they were afraid that the baby would grab at the Emblems and cause them to spill. However, when I countered with the thought that surely, as the child's mother, I could have ascertained whether that was even a remote possibility...... I had been standing at the back of the auditorium with the baby perched on my left hip, leaving my right hand free to accept and pass the Emblems; my reach extends about 60cm from my shoulder, obviously the baby could not have reached an emblem unless I permitted her to do so. They flapped their gums on that for a bit and then made reference to my medical condition and being unsure of whether or not I would partake. "Then why didn't you approach me during the 30 minutes prior to the beginning of the meeting and ask me what my intentions were?" Their non-response was to the effect that "well, since you weren't planning on partaking, it's not such a big deal then, is it, whether you passed them or not." Before I walked away, I said "When it appears that the congregation that CLAIMS to represent Jehovah has decided that someone is unworthy to pass those Emblems, YES IT IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL". I said that. To two elders. In a Kingdom Hall. I'm so proud of myself.

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63