Need help with letter on Blood

by wobble 10 Replies latest jw experiences

  • wobble
    wobble

    Hi All,

    I am thinking of sending a letter to the Ethics Committee of the British Medical Association with reference to their guidance to Doctors etc. and the treatment,or non-treatment of JW's with blood.

    It seems to me that they just look at the persons mental ability to make a decision,and then respect it, my argument will be that capability alone is not enough,they need to know that the person has been given enough information to make a reasoned decision.

    For instance, if someone refused a treatment on medical grounds,having only heard the negatives about such treatment, and none of the positives, would they feel happy in respecting that persons view? Is it ethical?or should not some attempt be made to educate the person fully,if they reject after that I would say then respecting their decision is ethical.

    When it comes to a person rejecting treatment on religious grounds,does not the same rule of ethics apply ? that the person should have full knowledge of the positives and negatives,or arguments for and against,their particular religious view.

    This would apply to "Christian Scientists "as well as JW's.

    How can a JW really make a decision based on only what he has heard from the WT,he has not seen the counter-argument,so in my opinion is not qualified to make the decision,so it is not ethical to respect that decision.

    This is extremely rambling I know, that is why I need help in formulating my thoughts. I know the Ethics Committee has to advise within the law,but I do feel they roll over and give in ,without looking at the poor patients state of ignorance as they make a life-or-death decision.

    Any thoughts will be appreciated,

    Love

    Wobble

  • bluecanary
    bluecanary

    Wobble, are you suggesting that the decision to not accept blood should be taken out of people's hands or merely that they should be thoroughly informed but still able to make that decision? I'm in favor of the latter.

  • wobble
    wobble

    I am suggesting that people be fully informed before they make a decision.

    If they refuse on medical grounds they need the whole argument,pro and con,they cannot decide properly otherwise,same if they decide on religious grounds, they need to know the whole picture, the WT denies its members this.

    Just to illustrate,I would have died for lack of a blood transfusion based on what I had learned in 58 years in the WT,one year out ,and seeing the RELIGIOUS arguments against the WT doctrine I would not sacrifice myself.

    So is not the medical profession duty bound to make sure,circumstances permitting,that the person is qualified to make the decision?

    I know this is a fine distinction,and I may have difficulty getting the idea over,hence my plea for help in expressing it,but I think the present attitude of the medics, that just because the person,even a minor, is capable mentally of making a decision,they should respect that position,even though the person has not been given all the information,I think what they do is un-ethical.

    Love

    Wobble

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    skeeter1 can probably help you with this.

    purps

    edited: also try looking back on some of her posts.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Medical providers are more and more aware of 1) the one-sided information fed to Witnesses by Watchtower and 2) the harsh and organized communal shunning Witnesses are subjected to by Watchtower leaders. Accordingly most doctors today will make efforts to 1) speak privately with Witness patients to help each one understand the risks and benefits of blood transfusion therapies Watchtower does not forbid, and 2) assure the patient that if they disagree with Watchtower's blood doctrine they till make sure any acceptance on their part is kept strictly confidential.

    When doctors do the above that is about as far as they can go without stomping on personal religious liberty. Though suicide is illegal it is not considered illegal to refuse lifesaving medical therapy. As long as the patient is mentally competent, or has left written directive executed during a period of competency, then doctors should honor a patient's wishes.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    “…1) speak privately with Witness patients to help each one understand the risks and benefits of blood transfusion therapies Watchtower does not forbid…”

    Should read:

    1) speak privately with Witness patients to help each one understand the risks and benefits of blood transfusion therapies Watchtower forbids…

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    here is some info from freeminds

    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/medicine/jehovahs-witness-accept-blood-–-a-little-known-fact.html

    Consent and the Jehovah’s Witness
    Consent must be freely given, and not coerced. In every life threatening situation there is thought of the afterlife. The thought of hell fire or pearly gates is clearly not coercion. Coercion refers to the consequences that would happen in the present life. Jehovah’s Witnesses carry a blood card and some even have a detailed blood directive which goes through their choices of blood treatments. The signing of the cards is a yearly event done at an open church meeting officiated by an elder with other Jehovah’s Witnesses in the room. Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially those who are elderly or have no other family members in the religion, are encouraged to sign an extra copy for the elders to keep and to give an elder a healthcare power of attorney. Refusal to sign a blood card has consequences. The consequence is disfellowshipping from the religion and shunning by all followers as a marked “apostate.” Disfellowshipping happens when a follower willingly and unrepentantly accepts a blood transfusion for himself or for a family member (including a child). However, no sin is committed if a court of government authority requires the transfusion. Then, the follower’s hands are clean. I oftentimes hear from doctors that a parent “seemed relieved” when the doctor threatened to obtain a judge’s order to administer blood to the child. If a patient accepts a blood transfusion in a deathbed circumstance, he has automatically “disassociated” himself from the church. This change was made because Bulgaria’s government demanded that there be no disfellowshipping for accepting blood. http://www.ajwrb.org/basics/perjury.shtml. The truth is that a disassociated person is also shunned, and will only be allowed back into the church if he repents. If he agrees with his decision to take blood (i.e. would do it all over again), he is then disfellowshipped. Either disassociated or disfellowshiped, he is shunned by other Jehovah’s Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly shun the disfellowshipped and disassociated. Shunning means loss of family relationships and contact, loss of friends, and sometimes, loss of employment. Jehovah’s Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for not following the shunning rules. Parents are to shun adult children. No contact other than legal matters, no opening mail, no phone calls, no money sent, no participating in the child’s wedding or birth of grandchildren, nothing. Parents of minor children are to provide for the apostate child, but it is expected that all ties will cease upon reaching 18 years old. All other relatives are free to shun the minor child. Spouses are to not have any spiritual conversations with apostate spouses, and the church gives an understanding nod if the two decide to divorce. Children of apostate parents have very strained relations with their sinful parents and are encouraged to write the parent letters pleading for the parent to rejoin Jehovah’s Organization. Doctors and hospitals need to know that Jehovah’s Witnesses are highly encouraged to report on other Jehovah’s Witnesses who break a medical tenant. Jehovah’s Witnesses will do this to attain status with both Jehovah and with peers. They will tattle-tail even if it breaks medical or legal confidentiality laws. The Watchtower article, “A Time to Speak-When?” illustrates how Jehovah's Witness followers, including lawyers and doctors, are told that Jehovah's law is supreme over man's confidentiality rules. This theme is repeated throughout Watchtower literature. http://www.jwfiles.com/report-members.htm I can not emphasize enough the importance of protecting patient’s medical records and putting those records on a “need to know” basis. Medical records need to be protected, as any Jehovah’s Witness who can get access (including even a Janitor) may try to peek at the patient’s records. Hospitals and doctors will often see a deluge of visitors to the patient’s bedside, including a Hospital Liaison Committee Elder. Even if the visitors are banned from the room, they are often lurking outside in the hallways and other public places near the patient’s room. This is oftentimes an attempt to make sure there is no blood going into the room. I have heard countless stories from doctors that a Jehovah’s Witness will accept blood if there are no other Jehovah’s Witnesses in the hospital room or outside.
    I can not emphasize enough the need to discuss the blood issue with the patient while he is alone and to assure the patient of his confidentiality.
    This will help ensure the patient is making an autonomous decision. A sick follower has a lot to think about, much more than the afterlife. He is under extreme pressure to not accept a blood transfusion. This pressure starts with the signing of his blood card. If he accepts blood to save his life, he will likely lose his family life, his friends, and his job (if Witness operated). The patient knows that other Jehovah’s Witnesses will report, even if they are under a confidentiality oath, if blood is taken. He knows the consequences in this life if he is caught.
    Recommendations For Treating a Jehovah's Witness
    I believe that adult Jehovah’s Witnesses can not give informed consent without information from their treating medical team. I recommend doctors consider the following: Talk in complete privacy with the Jehovah’s Witness patient. Ensure the patient you will use bloodless and blood conservation and, if agreed, any Watchtower permitted blood fractions and blood therapies. Discuss the actual risks of blood transfusions and abstaining from blood or bloodless surgery. Address both the patient’s fears and expectations. Give concrete facts as much as possible. (i.e. a “1 in 3,000,000” chance of getting AIDS verses a “1 in 3” chance of dying or organ failure). Test the patient’s conviction of his medical knowledge. Ask him if he can explain:
    The difference between Watchtower allowed “current therapy” verses autologous or whole blood transfusions.

    The Watchtower allowance of all blood fractions including hemoglobin, albumin, clotting factors, immunoglobulins. Explain that each of these fractions can be made from thousands of units of whole blood, and if added together, would equal a whole unit of blood.


    The Watchtower’s changing blood doctrine. See http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/data1.shtml


    The Watchtower’s changing doctrine on vaccinations and organ transplants. See http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/quotes.shtml
    Why he’s willing to die for a belief that the Watchtower might change tomorrow.
    If asked by patient, agree to speak with the minister on blood with the patient present. Ask the minister the same questions as above. He will have no meaningful response and this may help the patient to further think his position. Assure the patient that strict confidentiality of their medical records will be observed. Brief all treating medical staff and set up records on “need to know” basis to keep non-treating medical staff out of records. Offer to give blood in the operating room or secluded location; away from family, friends, and Watchtower Hospital Liaison Elders. Before leaving the operating room, disconnect all blood administering equipment from the patient. In briefing family and friends, be careful to not mention blood or blood products administered. I believe that medical doctors should be the chief decision maker on whether children, teenagers, and people with reduced decision making ability need a blood transfusion. The minor patient may need to be sedated, as he has been taught from an early age to pull out the blood transfusion lines and physically resist with all strength the blood transfusion. The parent should not be present when the blood transfusions are administered, as the parent may try to remove the lines and cause the child mental anguish. Both the child and parents need to be informed of the danger to the child from such actions. The doctors should question the parents with the above questions to ascertain their conviction. In court, the child should be represented by State appointed, independent, non-Watchtower attorney. The Watchtower Society should stop ousting and shunning followers who willingly agree to have a blood transfusion. Only if given free will, can any person make a true attestation to his faith. Further, the Watchtower Society needs to apologize and correct the misquotes in its medical literature. The Watchtower Society needs to provide an honest argument to its followers, and not base their beliefs on trickery and illogic. The Watchtower Society needs to explain to its followers the vast allowance of blood fractions and their relation to whole blood as a unit. The Watchtower Society needs to explain to its followers the difference, if any, between “current therapy” and autologous blood storage. In short, the Watchtower needs to stop its own hypocrisy.
  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    You might want to take a look over on AJWRB for ideas in this regard also.

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    http://www.ajwrb.org/letters/letter2.shtml

    Here are many letters written to AJWRB, some of which contain very helpful ideas. Might glean an idea or two from them.

    Jeff

  • wobble
    wobble

    Thanks Marv, the lovely Purps and Jeff,

    I need to distil all the info I have now to hand ,thanks to you guys, into a shortish coherent letter,that will explain that the Dubs objections to treatment are religious,and they, Dubs, are not qualified to make a decision on religious grounds because vital info. has been witheld from them.

    thanks for your help in this,

    Love

    Wobble

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