1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF (page 4)

Farkel

drew,

: Who exactly are the eyewitnesses to the late night burial?

I honestly can't remember anymore. Ed Gruss might know. Even if it was a fact, it barely qualifies as circumstancial evidence for a clandestine burial at Beth Sarim.

I think you nailed it when you noted the amount of "effort" the Society put into arguing for a Beth Sarim burial. I mean 16 PAGES for an article that was designed for circulation to the general public? They definitely wanted to drum up sympathy for that dear old dead minister who helped out so many tens of thousands of people by sacrificing his life for their greater good. It didn't work, and I'm sure the society was PISSED. And do not forget how vindictive they can be. Think of Olin Moyle. That sort of attitude by the Society is a far stronger pieces of circumstantial evidence than a late night burial, I think. Farkel

cattails

You can get the view on street level and do a walk-about the block in Google Street View.

Just go to the link posted and grab the little orange human figure and drag the circle under

his (I'm assuming the little orange dude is a guy) feet and dump it on the street you want to

virtually walk through. It's pretty cool.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=woodrow+united+methodist+church,+staten+island,+ny&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,6903502942454520195&ei=YJtbSrnZHIHANdDb0EI&z=16&iwloc=A

cabasilas

Drew,

Great work with the map! I've never been there but it looks like it fits the facts. I personally lean to JFR being in San Diego instead of Staten Island. When JFR was buried, the JWs still had their view of the "higher powers" being Jehovah God and Jesus Christ and not the governmental authorities. I would liken a secret burial of JFR at Beth Sarim and a subterfuge burial in NY as akin to "Theocratic War Strategy." I think the only way it could ever be proved is if someone unearthed his body. Being that there's no marker in NY, that makes that very unlikely to happen there. And none of us could ever hope to afford to buy Beth Sarim! It's a beautiful place and even with a downturned economy would not be a cheap place to buy.

cabasilas

A follow up question. Exactly where was WBBR in relation to the cemetery? As I understand, the Society had a "farm" or "truck garden" there, too. Anyone know? I imagine that land is all developed now.

Farkel

:It's a beautiful place and even with a downturned economy would not be a cheap place to buy.

It's in the millions. First, it is one of the most desirable "old money" neighborhoods in San Diego. Second, nothing can encroach upon it as it is flanked by vast canyons. Third, the people with serious money are that affected by recessions.

Just using a historic value of money index, one can see it is worth a fortune today.

I wanted to see how inflation has changed the value of the home, so I plugged in 1929 and $25,000 as a start and 2008 as today's value. The inflation algorithm factored in the following: CPI, GDP Deflator, Unskilled Wages, GDP Per Capita and Relative Share of GDP.

Today's value at a starting value of $25,000:

$1,337,000.00 using nominal GDP/Capita (average per-person output of the economy)

$3,442,000 using relative share of GDP

However, $25,000 was only the cost of the home. The 100 acres of land was donated. Soon after the home was built Rutherflake bragged he was already offered $75,000 for the property. Let's look at today's value of $75,000 in 1929:

$4,133,000 GDP/Capita

$10,326,000 Relative share of GDP.

I'm familiar with Kensington where Beth Sarim is located, and I was a licensed Real Estate Broker in San Diego for 12 years. Although I'm not up on current values, I've recently seen TRACT homes for sale in that neighborhood with NO views, and less than 1/2 the square footage of Beth Sarim (5,170 sq. ft.) and are dumps by comparison, offered for $1,250,000.

Source link:

http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/uscompare/index.php

Farkel

cabasilas

Farkel,

Thanks for the comparison. I hadn't realized how much that money translates into in today's economy.

So, the chances are fairly slim that there'll be an owner of the Beth Sarim property who'd want to start any archaeological digs anytime soon.

As to the possible locations to dig....

Barb's audio reports one former owner saying that JFR is buried under some concrete in the garage. I've had one other researcher say they thought it was behind the house down the hill a bit.

But, then, perhaps after almost 4 months as president maybe Knorr lost interest in fulfilling JFR's wishes?

drew sagan

One interesting thing that came to my mind.

It's not just Rutherford who is claimed to have been buried on Staten Island, but other people as well. Yet none of them have a grave on the site. Why were markers not purchased for these men? Were they trying to hide something, or were they just cheap?

It's funny how this story can be taken both ways with 'evidence' giving weight to each side. We could believe that they put no graves to hide the fact that Rutherford wasn't there. Or, they could not have avoided placing graves so as not to draw attention to the fact that it was a methodist church (the counter argument being, why didn't they just place some stones even if he really was in california?) There is also the obvious, 'they were cheap' argument as well.

For what it's worth, I don't think I buy into the story of the guy at Beth Sarim saying that Rutherford was in the garage. Just to much for me. But the idea of him being stuck in the back yard somewhere is interesting.

Another very important thing. The supplement to the book "the way to paradise" says that in a call to the church in 2002 the Watchtower the keeper of the grounds said that the Watchtower still owned the plot. But public records clearly show that they no longer to own it. There is only one large plot, and the Watchtower shows no ownership anywhere on the block.

Either the groundskeeper was wrong, or the Watchtower sold the proeprty in the last few years. My intuition tells me that the groundskeeper was wrong. I bet the property was sold (or given away) a long time ago. This is something that a little digging through records should reveal.

If Staten Island really was the place where Rutherford was buried, why would the Watchtower ever give away the land? Something's not right about this...

cabasilas

Perhaps the WT only owns the right to bury people in a certain number of cemetery lots? Like they bought a bunch of cemetery lots that were part of this cemetery?

drew sagan

Perhaps the WT only owns the right to bury people in a certain number of cemetery lots? Like they bought a bunch of cemetery lots that were part of this cemetery?

Interesting throught, although it was mentioned that the Church supposidly has no record of this (something I personally doubt).

As I mentioned in an eairler post, there are only a few lot numbers for that particular block and they are far from being in sequential order. It seems that many numbers are missing. My guess is that many smaller lots were merged over the years.

But if you are correct, the church has to have some documentation. I don't buy the idea that they have no records on the lot.

cabasilas

I think it would be good to clear up the current status of the property. Anyone brave enough to call? Probably should just be one person so we don't wear out our welcome with the Methodists.

1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

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