by under_believer 34 Replies latest jw friends
Hey UB, long time no see! Nice story. Not quite Robert A. Heinlein, but it gets the point across. For some reason I don't think most JWs would quite appreciate your sense of humor.
"Now that my eyes have seen you, I shudder with sorrow for mortal clay."
That makes more sense to me than the text found in modern translations.
Dave
Not quite Robert A. Heinlein, but it gets the point across.
I can find dozens of human derelicts and even human criminals who have tons more compassion and would offer more merciful justice than "Bible God" does.
Curse God. And die.
Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?
8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt'?
12 "Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.
16 "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death [b] ?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.
19 "What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!....................................
The LORD said to Job:
2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"
3 Then Job answered the LORD :
4 "I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.
5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
twice, but I will say no more."
6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:
7 "Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
8 "Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
Not I-BTS
Job is a morality play, not a proper historical story.
I totally agree, in the sense that the entire account is more logically taken as a parable along the same lines as those attributed to Jesus, such as the Prodigal Son.
That being said the Witnesses take the story not only literally but as as core account of the central issue of the entire universe--and, rather self-aggrandizingly, they place themselves as a "class" as the central fulcrum on which the entire issue pivots. As though Job hadn't already settled it, had he been a real guy.
In any case the above is an attempt to project the story using a modern understanding, while at the same time calling the Witnesses bluff. If we accept their literalist interpretation, and posit that it really happened, how can they possibly respect the guy who allowed the whole thing to go down?
Hey UB, long time no see!
Thanks, Dave! I've been silent for a long time, but immersing myself in the rich, steamy, somewhat rancid marinade that is the recent District Convention pushed me over the edge and I had to get some stuff off my chest. :)
"Now that my eyes have seen you, I shudder with sorrow for mortal clay."
Gave me a cold chill. Thanks for quoting that; I wasn't previously aware of that proposed translation.
I also agree that it is not a historical account. The God in the story would be much fun to spend eternity with. Very funny Under_believer!
Have you read Woody Allen's "Without Feathers"? I'll quote a little here: And the Lord made a bet with Satan to test Job's loyalty and the Lord for no apparent reason to Job smote him on the head and again on the ear and pushed him into a thick sauce so as to make Job sticky and vile and then He slew a tenth part of Job's kine and Job calleth out: "Why doth thou slay my Kine? Kine are hard to come by. Now I am a short kine and I'm not even sure what kine are." And the Lord produced two stone tablets and snapped them the closed on Job's nose. And when Job's wife saw this she wept and the Lord sent an angel of mercy who anointed her head with a polo mallet and of the ten plagues, the Lord sent one through six, inclusive, and Job was sore and his wife was angry and she rent her garment and then raised the rent but refused to paint."
And soon Job's pastures dried up and his tongue cleaved to the roof of his mouth so he could not pronounce the word"fankincense" with out getting big laughs...................
This part of the Bible shows that God thinks of us as beings that have no right to have feelings, though He made us with them. I don't know why that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag won't just sterilize His little marble (the Earth) of us "dust specks" and then He won't have to watch specks of dust that have feelings of their own.
The ending of Job as its now found in the Bible is horrible. Whats the morality lesson there? Might makes Right?
Afterall, what I basically get from God's answer is that we (insignificant worms that we are) have no right to question how he interacts with humanity. That we shouldn't try to call him out on our ideas of whats just because he's above all and isn't held accountable to anyone.
The best thing about being God is never having to say "I'm sorry".
BTS: Job is a morality play, not a proper historical story........the main purpose is to teach a moral lesson.
Moral lessons to be learned from Job:
1. Don't profess faith in God. He'll sink you like a three-foot putt.
2. Don't have any children. He'll kill them all to prove a meaningless point.
3. Don't strive for wealth or possessions. He'll destroy them just to prove he's the bestest god of all.
4. Don't hold onto your faith when God takes everything you hold dear. Job's wife said, "Curse God and die!" Job didn't, but he died anyway.
5. When friends show up to help you out, take the help and say thanks.
6. Don't read the Bible. History or allegory -- none of it makes any sense.
The ending of Job as its now found in the Bible is horrible. Whats the morality lesson there? Might makes Right?
I can see how it could be read that way but I do not believe this is what the author of the poetic dialogues (ch. 3-31, 38-42 up to v. 6, excepting the speeches of Elihu in ch. 32-37, which probably come from another hand) had in mind. The point he was making was not that God is just because he is all powerful but that lowly man is incapable of understanding theodicy at all because he cannot even begin to comprehend God and his works. Ironically enough, this lesson was lost on the author of the prose narrative frame of ch. 1-2, 42, who tried to supply a backstory aimed at explaining how the sufferings of Job are explicable from a particular understanding of theodicy, reducing what is supposed to be beyond our understanding to a rather simplistic affair.
The older poetic dialogues have strong parallels to Deutero-Isaiah and imo explore the theodicean implications of the kind of pure monotheism found in Deutero-Isaiah, wherein God brings both blessing and calamity (Isaiah 45:7). This raises a serious moral dilemma. If God is the source of both calamity and blessing, and if he brings punishment on the wicked, then if a person receives calamity can one infer that he is being punished for wickedness? Or does God bring calamities on the innocent as well? If this is the case, then how is God just? Job's companions assume that if God is just then Job must be guilty of some sin that he is being punished for; they assume that innocent suffering cannot exist. They have their own theory of theodicy that Job knows is wrong because he knows from his own subjective experience that he is truly innocent and blameless. But the reality of his suffering clashes with Job's own sense of justice and Job challenges God to explain why he is seemingly being punished (9:2, 10:2, 13-14, 19:4-8, 27:2, 31:1-40). When God appears at Job's request, he does nothing to explain himself. No solution is offered to the problem of theodicy because man cannot know the mind of God or the reason behind the calamities he brings; the question of justice must be left as a mystery of God. The author of the prose sections was not satisfied with this and attempted his own explanation (which imo is a failure). But the moral lesson of the poetic dialogues is this: (1) If you see a person experience calamity, do not judge the person and think he or she is guilty of some fault on the basis of your own limited understanding of God's justice, and (2) If you experience calamity and know that you did nothing to deserve such a misfortune, do not judge God and think you are more just than him on the basis of your own limited understanding of God's justice.
I think some modern readers will not be satisfied with (2) but will agree that (1) is a good lesson that anticipates the Christian ethic of Matthew 7:1-2, Luke 6:37, 1 Corinthians 4:5, James 4:12.
Thank you, Leo, for adding those points! Please keep them coming...
