Your take on Genesis 3:15?

restrangled

In the latest New Yorker Magazine they cover R. Crumb's newest work, an illustrated version of "The Book of Genesis" It's in comic book style. I was a little put off by some of the pictures, but he brings up some interesting points.

One of which, "..... it would be crazy to try to find any spiritual meaning in Genesis: "It's much too primitive."

Sure enough, in one of his pictures he quotes Genesis 3:15 and it dawns on me, is it just talking about the future of snakes' and mankind's relationship and nothing else?

I found this and it kind of confirmed it for me.: From the website: http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=15

“The Earliest Messianic Interpretation of Genesis 3:15,” JBL 84 [1965]: 425-27). In this allegorical approach, the woman’s offspring is initially Cain, then the whole human race, and ultimately Jesus Christ, the offspring (Heb “seed”) of the woman (see Gal 4:4). The offspring of the serpent includes the evil powers and demons of the spirit world, as well as those humans who are in the kingdom of darkness (see John 8:44). According to this view, the passage gives the first hint of the gospel. Satan delivers a crippling blow to the Seed of the woman (Jesus), who in turn delivers a fatal blow to the Serpent (first defeating him through the death and resurrection [1 Cor 15:55-57] and then destroying him in the judgment [Rev 12:7-9; 20:7-10]). However, the grammatical structure of Gen 3:15b does not suggest this view. The repetition of the verb “attack,” as well as the word order, suggests mutual hostility is being depicted, not the defeat of the serpent. If the serpent’s defeat were being portrayed, it is odd that the alleged description of his death comes first in the sentence. If he has already been crushed by the woman’s “Seed,” how can he bruise his heel? To sustain the allegorical view, v. 15b must be translated in one of the following ways: “he will crush your head, even though you attack his heel” (in which case the second clause is concessive) or “he will crush your head as you attack his heel” (the clauses, both of which place the subject before the verb, may indicate synchronic action).

restrangled

I should add that if this is the case, it calls in to question many interpretations by many religions, and the twisting and applying of scriptures to fit a certain belief.

Especially, those held by Jw's.

Narkissos

Well I wouldn't call the Eden story "primitive" or 'unspiritual'; it is a very good wisdom tale reworking a number of older creation stories in a highly sophisticated way in spite of its simple form. But I agree that ideas of messianism, redemption or salvation are completely foreign to it.

The "endline" of all "primeval stories" as those found in Genesis 1--11 is reality, "natural" and "cultural" inseparably, as it is perceived by the author. Which, in the context of Genesis 3:14ff, includes:

- mankind has gained (actually, stolen) divine knowledge;
- mankind misses on divine immortality (which the "serpent" as well as the "tree of life" could have offered, cf. the serpent taking away the plant of life in the Gilgamesh epic); mankind being estranged from the serpent (reduced to its actual "crawling," "dust-eating" state) by the curse also implies that it won't get any further divine secrets from it.
- mortal mankind will procreate in a way which will bring suffering and male domination on women;
- man will have to work to death for their living in a hostile environment.

V. 15 makes perfect sense in this context; as a "curse" it describes the "dark side" of reality, not a hope of salvation from such reality.

restrangled

Thanks Narkissos, I was so hoping you would reply. I agree with you, I don't find it primative but very straight forward in lessons for mankind.

It does bring up, in my mind, how much is "read" into simple scriptures and presented as "truth".

r.

OnTheWayOut

The offspring of a snake is snakes.
The offspring of a woman is humans.

Humans and snakes will have enmity between them, snakes will bite humans in the heel because they are on the ground.
Humans will crush snakes heads because they want to kill them.

It was a mythology story from an ancient people, but by the time it was recorded into the Pentatauch, religion had given it so much more deep meaning, and religion continues to do that today.

Witness 007

Interesting point in the article!

ablebodiedman

I think "The Woman" is the bride of Christ.

The true son's of the kingdom.

The one's who accept the invitation to the marriage feast.

The same woman mentioned in Revelation Chapter 12 who has 12 stars around her head.

The 12 stars are the leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel.

That's my take.

See the video's on the book of Revelation here:

http://thebiblereport.blogspot.com/2008/06/book-of-revelation-part-1.html

Regards

abe

restrangled

abe,

I think "The Woman" is the bride of Christ.
The true son's of the kingdom.
The one's who accept the invitation to the marriage feast.
The same woman mentioned in Revelation Chapter 12 who has 12 stars around her head.
The 12 stars are the leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel.
That's my take.

The problem with this is, God didn't promise squat until Abraham, Yes with Noah, he said the rainbow was a sign he'd never use water again to ruin the earth, but he at that time had terrible regrets he had created man.

Are you telling me, the instant God found out about Adam and Eve's sin it was all pre-planned until the end? Whats the point then? There would have been no free will.

Why bother with any of it? Just quit and start over. I think he had to wait and see if mankind was willing to be obedient of their own free will, and then provide a way out of imperfection. I think his son, also had to agree to the plan.

So 3 times he had to stop humans in their tracks....The garden of Eden, The flood, and the tower of Babel. By the way, what was the point to the tree of life?

r.

Waffles

Great post Abe. Any chance that you could hook me up with your dealer? I definitely want some of what you're smoking.

Your take on Genesis 3:15?

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