How do you explain Christmas to a JW?

by indireneed 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  thewiz

  Consider Xmas origins, look it up in an Encyclopedia. Why then would a christian want anything to do with it?

  Here's a simple question? Was Jesus born on Dec 25th? -No? Then it's a lie. Jo 8:44. Also about people wanting to have their ears tickled; that is, they get themselves to believe in something simply because that is the way they want to see it. They want to continue to believe in the lie. Ro 1:25, 2 Thess 2:11.

  Truth does not change, but we do. We must comply with truth once we are aware of it or we remain in sin.

  People have most definitely connected their worship to God with Xmas. For some people it's 1 of only 3 times they ever go to church.

  Aside from that big business just about wants to make me puke when they tie in their LORD and saviour with giving a gift from them to boost their stock rating.

  figures you would get of people kissing your butt. People here apparently do not care if they believe in a lie or not. They just don't want to believe in the JW lies. If it's not a JDub lie then apparently it's OK.

  Ever hear of one-sided arguments? That's what you see the JDubs doing, but apparently the ONLY side you get here, is why there is nothing wrong with it.

  I love this time of year too, first snow fall, hot coco, sittin' by the fire, etc. I like the flashing lights and glitter too but what's that got to do with with Christmas?

  Sure witnesses used to celebrate Xmas, and exchanged presents, etc. But they seen the need for a change.

  Jehovah says of Babylon The Great (symbol of false religion to JDubs) "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her and her sins." So in their opionion they got out, in this respect. It also mentions in 1 Co 6:11 "... yet that is what some of you were." That is, a person could stop practicing something once they learned it to be wrong and "[be] washed clean,..."

  You people aren't moving closer to truth, you're just replacing one lie for another.
• 

  larc

  thewiz,

  I don't care where the celebration came from or what it stands for. I celebrate Christmas because it is fun. It is one of the few times of the year when my three children, their spouses and my two grandchildren can all get together for a nice meal. It is especially fun exchanging gifts and sharing hugs. Ahead of time, it is fun trying to figure out what would be good presents for each member of the family. I thoroughly enjoy the experience.
• 

  thewiz

  larc

  So your telling me that one of the ONLY time you can get together with your family is on Dec. 25th what about the other 364/365 days of the year?

  So are you saying that you ONLY want to be with them one day a year? Is that all you can stand them?

  So you really don't want a balanced answer either. you don't want to hear the other perspective?

  You say you don't care. Well the JDubs cared enough to stop teaching their flock the lies of Xmas. In that respect they cared.
• 

  NeonMadman

  I think what you have to do with her is make her stick to the Bible for every assertion that she makes. After all, she claims that what she says is "scriptural", right? So ask her to show you the scriptures to back up everything she asserts. For example, where does the Bible say that it is wrong to celebrate a traditional day if the origins are in some sort of pagan worship? "Pagan" is such a buzzword among JW's that they just automatically assume that anything the least bit "pagan" is somehow of the devil and to be avoided completely. But the Bible doesn't make that distinction, except for the Old Testament Israelites actually engaging in worship of gods other than YHWH. By celebrating Christmas, your intent is to worship the God of the Bible, not pagan gods. The mere fact that some of the trappings originated in pagan lands is irrelevant. As the Watchtower of 1972, p.63 said regarding wedding rings,

  Really, the question is not so much whether wedding rings were first used by pagans but whether they were originally used as part of false religious practices and still retain such religious significance [emphasis theirs].

  Surely no one would argue today that Christmas still retains its pagan significance; its customs have been adapted to honor Christ.

  Next, you might ask her to scripturally support her contentions that celebrating Christmas is the same as worshipping it, and that such 'worshipping' of Christmas is equivalent to worshipping Satan. She will come up dry on both accounts.

  As your coup de grace, refer her to Romans 14.

  4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

  So, at this point, she will have only the human reasoning of the Watchtower to bolster her argument, while you will have scripture that specifically states that what days you celebrate are between you and the Lord. The Watchtower response to this scripture is to say that Paul was talking only about the Jewish feast days, but the scripture does not say that; it merely states a general principle without limiting it. Additionally, those who assert this must then accept that it would be scripturally acceptable for Jehovah's Witnesses today to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles, feast of Trumpets, Passover, Sabbath, etc. if they wished, or even the feast of Dedication (Hanukkah), which was apparently celebrated by Jesus! John 6:22,23 shows that Jesus was at the temple at the time of the celebration. What do you suppose would happen to a JW today who instituted such celebrations in his family?

  When dealing with JW's, you need to separate scripture from Watchtower reasoning, which is really just opinion. If you do that very carefully, most of their arguments fall apart rather quickly.

  Tom
  "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
• 

  thewiz

  Why didn't I think of this before. A conflict within my soul.

  JDubs where neck ties - they were considered a phallic symbol. An extension of the male genetallia. Right?

  what about rings. Fertility symbols of pagan origin.

  What about veils at weddings. I've seen them. Supposed to fool the demons who the bride is or something like that.

  Wind chimes -scaring away evil spirits. I love 'em.

  Crisis of Conscience - what to do?
• 

  rcranor

  Dude your funny.

  That JW Propaganda has really sunk in. Do you honestly think normal people only spend one day a year seeing the people they love and exchanging gifts? People often do that all year around. Yes. I know it sounds crazy. But really, it does happen, despite what you might think. Honestly. "Worldly" people don't just get together to worship pagan gods only on DEC 25th. You'll find us getting together year around for birthdays, work-parties, marriages, etc, exchanging gifts.

  If anything Christmas acts as a much needed break from work that everyone gets. A chance to do these and other things.

  No one said they could only stand their relatives only once a year. Once again, your brainwashing shows....

  I loved your Encyclopedia reference! When I was a witness I used to always say that too. Of course, when you keep reading through the Encyclopedia be sure to read about the pagan origins of wedding rings, days of the week, months of the year...etc...

  I love when people do all the work of showing their ignorance for me.
• 

  IslandWoman

  Indireneed,

  You might want to consider telling your wife that if you did not celebrate Christmas just because she said so, you would then be worshipping her!! "Indeed, everything that is not out of faith is sin." Romans 14:23b

  IW
• 

  OUTLAW

  How do you explain christmas to a jw?..If its one I don`t like,I just wack them in the head with my heavyist present!LOL...OUTLAW