Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 18 May 2009

by LUKEWARM 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • LUKEWARM
    LUKEWARM

    *** lv chap. 5 pp. 50-53 How to Keep Separate From the World ***

    Chapter 5

    How to Keep Separate From the World

    "You are no part of the world."-JOHN 15:19.

    Q1. What did Jesus emphasize during his final night on earth as a human?1. DURING his final night on earth as a human, Jesus expressed deep concern for the future welfare of his followers. He even prayed about the matter, saying to his Father: "I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." (John 17:15, 16) In this heartfelt request, Jesus showed both his deep love for his followers and the importance of his words stated earlier that night to some of them: "You are no part of the world." (John 15:19) Clearly, it was of great importance to Jesus that his followers keep separate from the world!

    If "no part of the world" means "keep separate from the world" then why was the WTS involved with this?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/oct/08/religion.world

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/oct/15/religion.unitednations

    http://www.towerwatcher.orconhosting.net.nz/unfax.jpg

    Q2. What is "the world" to which Jesus referred?2 "The world" Jesus mentioned refers to all of mankind who are alienated from God, ruled by Satan, and enslaved to the selfish, prideful spirit that emanates from him. (John 14:30; Ephesians 2:2; 1 John 5:19) Indeed, "friendship with [that] world is enmity with God." (James 4:4) How, though, can all who want to remain in God's love be in the world yet be separate from it? We will consider five ways: by remaining loyal to God's Kingdom under Christ and neutral in worldly politics, by resisting the spirit of the world, by being modest in our dress and grooming, by keeping our eye simple, and by putting on our spiritual suit of armor.

    [that] - Why do they add to the Bible as they please?

    What does "No Part of The World" really mean?

    http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/world.html

    REMAINING LOYAL AND NEUTRALQ3. (a) How did Jesus view the politics of his day? (b) Why can it be said that Jesus' anointed followers serve as ambassadors? (Include footnote.)3 Instead of participating in the politics of his day, Jesus focused on preaching about God's Kingdom, the future heavenly government of which he was the prospective King. (Daniel 7:13, 14; Luke 4:43; 17:20, 21) Thus, when before Roman Governor Pontius Pilate, Jesus could say: "My kingdom is no part of this world." (John 18:36) His faithful followers imitate his example by giving their loyalty to Christ and his Kingdom and by announcing that Kingdom to the world. (Matthew 24:14) "We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ," wrote the apostle Paul. "As substitutes for Christ we beg: 'Become reconciled to God.'"-2 Corinthians 5:20.

    Are JW the only ones "announcing that Kingdom to the world"? and are they even preaching the same message Jesus and disciples preached?

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/preach.htm

    [Footnote]Since Pentecost 33 C.E., Christ has served as King over his congregation of anointed followers on earth. (Colossians 1:13) In 1914, Christ received royal authority over "the kingdom of the world." Hence, anointed Christians now also serve as ambassadors of the Messianic Kingdom.-Revelation 11:15.

    Q4. How have all true Christians demonstrated loyalty to God's Kingdom? (See the box on page 52.)4 Because ambassadors represent a foreign sovereign or state, they do not interfere in the internal affairs of the countries where they serve; they remain neutral. Ambassadors do, however, advocate the government of the country they represent. The same is true of Christ's anointed followers, whose "citizenship exists in the heavens." (Philippians 3:20) In fact, thanks to their zealous Kingdom preaching, they have helped millions of Christ's "other sheep" to "become reconciled to God." (John 10:16; Matthew 25:31-40) These latter ones serve as Christ's envoys, as it were, in support of Jesus' anointed brothers. As one united flock advocating the Messianic Kingdom, both groups maintain strict neutrality toward the world's political affairs.-Isaiah 2:2-4.

    The hypocrisy of the WTS is incredible when they say: "they do not interfere in the internal affairs of the countries where they serve"

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/125201/1/JWs-in-world-politics-Jehovahs-Witnesses-Are-Politically-Neutral-NOT

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/46960/1/The-Watchtowers-Membership-for-Political-Practice

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/56712/1/Watchtower-Society-joins-Political-Lobby

    So bringing people into the organization has "helped millions of Christ's "other sheep" to "become reconciled to God."

    Box on page 52]EARLY CHRISTIAN NEUTRALSSecular history provides ample evidence that the early Christians remained politically neutral and refrained from warfare. Says the book The Beginnings of Christianity: "The founders of Christianity guarded with sedulous care against the development of anything like a disposition to interfere directly with the established political order." Similarly, the book On the Road to Civilization notes: "Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the pagan world. . . . Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office."

    Regarding the early Christians and military service, German theologian Peter Meinhold said: "Being a Christian and a soldier was considered irreconcilable." In his essay "An Inquiry Into the Accordancy of War With the Principles of Christianity," religion writer Jonathan Dymond wrote that for some time after the death of Jesus, His followers "refused to engage in [war]; whatever were the consequences, whether reproach, or imprisonment, or death." Dymond added: "These facts are indisputable." Only when "Christianity became corrupted," said another writer, did Christians become soldiers.

    Q5. How is the Christian congregation different from ancient Israel, and how does this difference manifest itself?5 Loyalty to Christ is not the only reason that true Christians are neutral. Unlike ancient Israel, which had a God-given land allocation, we are part of an international brotherhood. (Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 2:9) Thus, if we were to rally to the side of local political parties, both our freeness of speech in regard to the Kingdom message and our Christian unity would be severely compromised. (1 Corinthians 1:10) Furthermore, during war time, we would be fighting against fellow believers, whom we are commanded to love. (John 13:34, 35; 1 John 3:10-12) With good reason, then, Jesus told his disciples to lay down the sword. And he even told them to love their enemies.-Matthew 5:44; 26:52; see the box "Am I Remaining Neutral?" on page 55.

    How do JW's follow Jesus admonition to "love their enemies"?

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/173584/1/April-15th-WT-Satan-3d-Apostates-3d-Critical-Towards-Brothers-3d-Shun-Them

    [Box/Picture on page 55]AM I REMAINING NEUTRAL?Principle: "My kingdom is no part of this world."-John 18:36.

    Some questions to ask yourself
    ? How would I explain why saluting the flag is a form of idol worship?-Exodus 20:4, 5; 1 John 5:21.

    ? When explaining my nonparticipation in certain national ceremonies, how would I show my deep respect for those who do not share my beliefs?-1 Peter 3:15.

    ? What are my reasons for not supporting any political parties or performing any type of military service?-John 13:34; 1 John 3:10-12.

    Q6. How does your dedication to God affect your relationship with Caesar?6 As true Christians, we have dedicated our life to God, not to any human, human institution, or nation. Says 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20: "You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price." Thus, while rendering "Caesar" his due in the form of honor, taxes, and relative subjection, Jesus' followers give "God's things to God." (Mark 12:17; Romans 13:1-7) This includes their worship, their whole-souled love, and their loyal obedience. If necessary, they are ready to give up their life for God.-Luke 4:8; 10:27; Acts 5:29; Romans 14:8.

    WTS does everything possible to avoid Caesars "Taxes" like any other organization

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/174940/1/Ramapo-denies-Jehovahs-Witnesses-tax-exemption

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/8374/1/WTS-CORP-LIST-BIG

    "As true Christians, we have dedicated our life to God, not to any human, human institution, or nation" In the mind of the JW this of course this does not include the WTS, otherwise Brooklyn would not have so much control over them.

    "...give up their life for God" or for not saluting the flag, nonparticipation in certain national ceremonies or some other WTS interpretation?

    Lukewarm

  • k9groomer
    k9groomer

    6 As true Christians, we have dedicated our life to God, not to any human, human institution, or nation.

    So then why are JW's told to willingly submit to the Governing body??? hmmmmmm

  • Sad Michael
    Sad Michael

    Was not the first century GB a group of spirit annointed older men who wrote letters to instruct and direct as well as correct and counsel with a view to the building up of the clean congregation in order to further the spread (preaching of) the good news ? 1 cor 5:9

    I seem to have "stumbled on another whose posting has the sole intent of trashing the" org " (borg minus the b to those whose delight is in retaliation for their rebellious, independent spirit).

    WTS does everything possible to avoid Caesars "Taxes" like any other organization

    Interesting how freely you can use copywrited material in violation of ceasar's laws while bashing those who willingly submit to his laws regarding taxation, etc. The only thing we avoid is being "part of the world" If we don't pay taxes it's because ceasar's laws allow us not to. Besides what great witness is it to have your tax money spent on killing and plundering around the world anyway?

    How do JW's follow Jesus admonition to "love their enemies"?

    We do show love for our enemies by witholding close association from those whose conduct denies a desire to live according to bible standards. Even Paul would not allow someone to be called a brother who was a fornicator, idolator........... Please explain....how is it loving to give tacit approval to harmful or self destructive behaviour ?

    So then why are JW's told to willingly submit to the Governing body??? hmmmmmm

    Older men are not always mentally deficient. In fact, most of the time they have some pretty good insight into what you'll get into if left without direction, counsel and reminders. Titus 1:5

    I really need to get to bed, but I always feel better when I spar a bit just for the exercise before retiring I hope you do too

    until later, via con dios (if you haven't left him behind and forgotten where)

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    @ SadMichael - why doesn't the Bible contain these words/phrases;

    1. Governing Body
    2. Organization

    Thanks.

  • Marjorie
    Marjorie

    Excellent comments, Lukewarm and K9groomer. But fie, fie on you, Brother PP! You know all too well that the Bible doesn't contain the words Governing Body and Organization!

    But the Bible does contain the words false prophet, hypocrites and liar. Those are all the words that you need to describe the WTS.

  • Marjorie
    Marjorie

    Sad Michael:

    I really need to get to bed, but I always feel better when I spar a bit just for the exercise before retiring I hope you do too
    until later, via con dios (if you haven't left him behind and forgotten where)

    Sad Michael, in your own words you've just admitted that you don't come here to convince us to return to the WTS with honest and humble dialogue.

    You come to spar with the readers of this forum -- "just for the exercise".

    That is the nature of the cult, of course. In the WTS, people learn how to casually dismiss other human beings, and treat them with arrogance. Loyalty to the B0rg supersedes all, everything and everyone else be damned.

    Even if I were once again an active dub, and came to this site out of sheer curiosity, I would never have written what you just did.

    Having a supercilious attitude about others is a poor way to show that you have 'the Truth™'.

  • LUKEWARM
    LUKEWARM
    Interesting how freely you can use copywrited material in violation of ceasar's laws while bashing those who willingly submit to his laws regarding taxation, etc. The only thing we avoid is being "part of the world" If we don't pay taxes it's because ceasar's laws allow us not to. Besides what great witness is it to have your tax money spent on killing and plundering around the world anyway?

    Michael, surely there is no infringement of copyright considering the source has been acknowledged and only 6 paragraphs are included not the whole book.

    As far as taxation is concerned, you have a validly state that the WTS legitimately uses Ceaser's laws not to pay any tax and that some of the tax money collected is misused.

    The point I was trying to make is that WTS do very little charitable activity/public service in comparison to other churches that are tax exempt. So since they do not contribute much to the community and generally to society, but avail themselves of all the services available, is it fair that they should they get tax breaks?

    We do show love for our enemies by witholding close association from those whose conduct denies a desire to live according to bible standards. Even Paul would not allow someone to be called a brother who was a fornicator, idolator...........Please explain....how is it loving to give tacit approval to harmful or self destructive behaviour?

    Can you imaging the father of the prodigal son, upon seeing his wayward son approaching the home, rather than running out and embracing him as he did, insting that the son first be screened by a committee of three before expressing parental interest and affection?

    You mention (1 Corinthians 5:11-13):
    "But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves."     The Apostle Paul was not talking about persons claiming to be Christians who have at some time been guilty of of an act or acts of immorality, greed, drunkenness or similar wrongdoing, rather persons claiming to be Christians who ARE immoral, who ARE greedy, who ARE drunkards etc. Getting drunk on one occasion does not make one "a drunkard" and in the same way an act of immorality does not automatically make one "a fornicator" or "immoral person". He is talking about a continuing course of conduct or a characteristic of a person.

    The point is why are members denied any right to exercise their own intelligence and judgement as to whether a persons "conduct denies a desire to live according to bible standards"? Why must they wait for some religious authority to approve association with somebody?

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    @ Sad Michael -

    We do show love for our enemies by witholding close association

    That, my friend, is a dichotomy. How is with-holding close assocation with someone, especially a family member, showing love? And are those who conscienciously leave the Watch Tower Society due to no longer wishing to put their trust in flawed, un-inspired men, to be classed as enemies?

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Neutral, my eye. They put on the front of being politically neutral, even to the point where the witlesses are not supposed to have political opinions, or vote (though they have softened, if temporarily, that position at one point). Yet, it is common knowledge that they are involved in the UN as NGOs, and quit when they were embarrassed (not early in the game, in 1991). They also play the parties when seeking recognition, and in getting child custody with the witless parents. That is fairly common, and is not indicative of being politically neutral.

    Even worse lies ahead, if they get half a chance. Let them get Critical Mass, and they will take ownership of everyone and everything. Their crap becomes the law--present proof that they are wrong, and get stoned to death. I am sure they would like nothing more than to seize control of every single one of the world's governments, so they can own us all and everything on the planet. They would like to start the whole world into the Second Dark Ages, just so they can have the power and possessions at their disposal. To hell with progress. And, this time they would never let go--even with primitive technology, it took more than 1,000 years for the First Dark Ages to end (and, with better enforcement technology, the Second Dark Ages will never end.

    Politically neutral?

  • carla
    carla

    Sad Michael, you are woefully ignorant of 1st century history and the lives of Christians in those days but if you read only wt's that is to be expected. There never was 'governing body' in the 1st century. There were no 'elders' who regulated faith and micromanaged the lives of believers, other than the pharisees of course, which are exactly like your gb in NY.

    As for using the wt quotes, have you never heard of 'fair use'? and besides aren't people supposed to spread the word of the wt? or is it only some words and leave out all the lies, hypocricy and ungodly behaviors? Here is a quote I like from an Awake! Aug 22, 1984 "The Catholic Church occupies a very significant postition in the world and claims to be the way of salvation for hundreds of millions of people. ANY ORGANIZATION THAT ASSUMES THAT POSITION SHOULD BE WILLING TO SUBMIT TO SCRUTINY AND CRITICISM." hmm, sound familiar? maybe the wt should practice what it preaches.

    Jesus sat & ate with sinners. Will a jw?

    Jw's like to claim how anti war they are yet they don't mind profiting from war, why is that? see Randcam.

    When exactly do jw's live by bible standards? I have never seen it.

    Jw's are neutral? you must be kidding?! have you ever read a wt? have you ever talked with a jw? they are hardly neutral. To be neutral would be to have no opinion, to not care one way or another, to go about your business without a thought to what other countries are doing. That would be neutral. The jw lawyers use national laws when it suits them and tells the members to ignore national laws when it pleases them even it means death or maiming to the jw's. See Mexico/Malawi and many other examples of this hypocritical stance by the gb.

    Research, use the mind God gave you it wasn't meant to be handed over to mere men on a silver platter. The Bereans were commended for testing all things.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit