Difference between Spirit Inspired and Spirit Directed?

by onefootout 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • onefootout
    onefootout

    The title says it all.

    What arguments have you heard in people trying to defend the org in saying they are 'spirit directed but the writers and GB are not spirit inspired'?

    I have never seen much of a difference. This seems to be the crux of the matter. If you can prove there is no difference, then their claim of being spirit directed doesn't hold up with all the undeniable errors in the Watchtower and other publications.

    How is this officially explained away?

    What do you think the difference is if any?

    How would you counter this reasoning without outing yourself?

    Thanks. ofo

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    I think this question has been considered by the Watchtower in it's publications. Blondie?

  • BonaFide
    BonaFide

    I am an active Witness. So my way of talking to the friends about stuff like this is to first say I believe the Slave no matter what. THEN I bring up the question.

    This is the way I would do it with your question:

    I would first ask ANOTHER question like, "How many were in the Governing Body in the First Century?" Then everyone gives an idea, and I would say, "Eighteen." And I would quote some publication or whatever. Any kind of a sample question that has a good answer that requires some WT research. Makes me look like I am very supportive of the Organization.

    AND THEN, when their guard is down, I would say, "Here's a question for the service group. What is the difference between being "spirit-inspired" and "spirit-directed?"

    The bro's would give their answers, thinking I am supporting the Organization, and then I would say, "Well, there really isn't any difference, either Jehovah directs the work or he doesn't. You can't have both. But we have to phrase it like this because worldly people wouldnt believe it. So the Society is really inspired just like the Bible writers were."

    That is what I am having some limited success doing, being extra-positive about the Organization, and introducing topics and questions until THEY THEMSELVES QUESTION THINGS, NOT ME.

    BF

  • AWAKE&WATCHING
    AWAKE&WATCHING

    I like the way you work, good on you.

  • Colton
    Colton

    If the WT does not claim inspiration from the Holy Spirit, should people listen to them? Before you answer, I would like for you to think about a couple of things:

    1) We would not believe the bible to be the word of God if it were not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    2) It is not plausible for someone to be God's sole channel of communication on earth without being inspired by the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit is how God communicates.

    "Ever since "The Watchtower" began to be published in July of 1879 it has looked ahead into the future, always striving to aid its readers to advance in knowledge and to gain a clearer picture of the glorious new order of things that is in store for righteous mankind. No, "The Watchtower" is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a Book of Prophecy the predictions in which have proved to be unerring and unfailing till now. "The Watchtower" is therefore under safe guidance. It may be read with confidence, for its statements may be checked against that prophetic book."

    And here are a few other references:

    *** w50 8/15 p. 263 Name and Purpose of The Watchtower ***

    Hence the purpose of this magazine is to keep sharp and faithful focus on Bible truth, on world happenings that may fulfill prophecies, and on religious news generally. Sometimes it will tear down religious falsehoods, that Bible truth may be built up in their stead. Such two-way work is Scripturally commanded, and is beneficial for all persons of right heart condition. (Jer. 1:10; Heb. 12:5-13) However, The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic. It invites careful and critical examination of its contents in the light of the Scriptures. Its purpose is to aid others to know Jehovah and his purposes toward mankind, and to announce Christ’s established kingdom as our only hope.
    *** w79 3/1 p. 23 To Whom Shall We Go but Jesus Christ? ***

    15 Because of this hope, the “faithful and discreet slave” has alerted all of God’s people to the sign of the times indicating the nearness of God’s Kingdom rule. In this regard, however, it must be observed that this “faithful and discreet slave” was never inspired, never perfect. Those writings by certain members of the “slave” class that came to form the Christian part of God’s Word were inspired and infallible, but that is not true of other writings since.
    Here is more:
    *** je p. 26 Shepherding God’s Flock in Unity ***
    The Governing Body consists of a group of anointed Christian men (13 in 1986), including 7 serving on the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society. These preside over the worldwide activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They are not inspired by God and hence are not infallible, but they rely on God’s infallible Word as the highest authority on earth, and have a lifetime of experience in submitting to God’s will. Each has a record of more than 40 years in the full-time ministry with Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    *** w85 9/1 p. 26 God’s Ministers Prove Their Qualification ***

    17 With the help of Jehovah’s spirit, Paul wrote a number of Bible books and made many converts to Christianity. So he certainly proved to be adequately qualified for the Christian ministry. In a modern parallel, especially since this journal was first published in 1879, the anointed remnant of Christ’s disciples, though not inspired as was Paul, have produced much Bible literature. Since 1920, they have published thousands of millions of books, booklets, magazines, and tracts in many languages. This literature has been distributed at reduced cost, much of it being given free to the poor. The Watch Tower Society has also arranged for free Bible lectures and has sent missionaries to unserved territories around the globe. Tens of thousands have responded to the printed and vocal message and have symbolized their dedication to Jehovah God by being baptized, particularly since 1935 when it was first made clear that an unlimited “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep” can look forward to eternal life in a restored paradise on earth.—Revelation 7:9-17; Luke 23:43
    They have always made claims which would REQUIRE inspiration to be true, but they have always denied being in fact inspired. Consider my tagline. How could it be possible that no human opinions are ever printed in the pages of The Watchtower, unless that magazine was inspired in exactly the same way the Bible is inspired? Obviously, it couldn't be possible! Yet the Society claimed that there are no human opinions published in The Watchtower while denying emphatically the inspiration which is the only thing that could make the claim true.

    JW's are taught to believe that the Society's publications contain nothing but pure truth, unless and until the Society publishes something different from what has been published before. Then this "new light" is true, and the obsolete statement is rejected. Until, as sometimes happens, they later re-publish the formerly obsolete statement as "new new light", thus making the old "new light" obsolete. Then, sometimes, the old "new light" is re-published, becoming "new new new light" and then the old "new new light" is obsolete.

    Lather, rinse, and repeat until total confusion sets in.
    They claim to be uninspired, for sure. So when you read their literature, what you will find is them calling themselves "prophets" with the quotes around the word, especially when dealing with their predictions of armageddon. Here is a quick example of what I mean:
    *** w72 6/1 p. 324 Christendom’s Days Are Numbered! ***

    What is there about Jerusalem’s position that should concern us now? This: that Christendom has come to the same corrupt condition that Jerusalem had then reached. Moreover, the same Ezekiel-like warning has been given to Christendom for more than fifty years now. By whom? Who acts as a modern-day “Ezekiel”? It is the association composed of true Christians, Christ’s spiritual brothers who are on earth today. In this work they have been assisted by thousands of others who have taken up the warning message and are carrying it to the people.
    These anointed spiritual brothers of Christ, as a body, serve as a “prophet” for God, and are witnesses for Jehovah.
    They have always claimed to be prophets. They have always claimed that they are NOT inspired. The Bible has a phrase to describe a "prophet" who are not inspired: "false prophet". Yes, it is interesting. How could anyone be a true prophet of God without being inspired by God? How could anyone be the only channel of communication from God to man without getting the message 100% correct 100% of the time? Is God not able to communicate clearly to and through His own chosen channel of communication? Of course He is! Therefore, anyone claiming to be God's only visible channel of communication on Earth (and the Clergy Class of the Jehovah's Witnesses is far from being the only one on Earth making that claim today) who is not 100% correct 100% of the time is a false prophet.

    Do not presume to speak for God unless He has given you the words to speak. Do not follow, obey, or associate with anyone who does presume to speak for God who has not been given God's words to speak. How can you tell if someone is merely claiming to speak for God, but does not have God's words to speak? One easy method is to see if that someone predicts the future while claiming to be God's spokesman. If the prediction fails to come to pass, the person is not God's spokesman; he or she is merely another false prophet.

    That test is found in the Bible, and the Clergy Class of the Jehovah's Witnesses has failed it, over and over and over and over and over again. Listen to them at your own peril. God will not withhold His judgment against anyone who associates with false prophets.
    Consider what the WT said in 1957:
    "Let us now unmistakably identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day, that we may continue in his favor. Listen to the inspired answer to the situation, in Matthew 24:45-47 (NW): "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings." And has he? Yes, particularly since 1919 has it been true that he has appointed the collective body of the anointed remnant over all the visible interests of the Kingdom. The “slave” then became responsible not only for ministering to the needs of the anointed body members but also for taking on the responsibility of preaching the good news of the established Kingdom to people of all nations."
    (Watchtower, June 15, 1957, p. 370)
  • oompa
    oompa

    colton....where is your first quote from?

  • onefootout
    onefootout

    Thanks for the effort you put into that response colton.

    Any other thoughts on this topic?

    ofo

  • Johnny
    Johnny

    I don't doubt that the "Organization" is spirit-directed.

    The question is though, WHAT spirit?? NOT the Holy Spirit!

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light ." - 2Cor 11:14

  • Colton
  • kurtbethel
    kurtbethel

    I would never quibble with their claim of being "spirit directed". However, given the nature of the messages that they channel all these decades, I seriously wonder which spirit is directing them.

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