John 14:14 "Ask me anything in my name.." or "ask anything in my name.." ?

by yadda yadda 2 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  possible-san

  When discussing this topic, why do you ignore the footnote of the "Reference Bible" purposely?

  *** Rbi8 John 14:14 ***
  “Ask,” ADIt and in agreement with 15:16 and 16:23; P66 Aleph BWVgSyh,p, “ask me.”

  In addition, in the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, Greek "me" is in single brackets.
  http://www.ccel.org/w/westcott/gnt/john/john_14.htm
  http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh14.pdf
  
  Please refer to "Editionum Differentiae" (Appendices three) in "Nestle-Aland" (27th edition).

  So, KIT (Watch Tower society) omits "single brackets", and is printing it.

  possible
  http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/
• 

  Narkissos

  Westcott & Hort, The New Testament in the Original Greek (Macmillan, 1925) p. 581:

  "The primary place in the text itself is assigned to those readings which on the whole are more probable, or in cases of equal probability the better attested (see p. 563 and Introduction § 377). The other alternative readings occupy a secondary place, with a notation which varies according as they differ by Omission, by Addition, or by Substitution.

  A secondary reading consisting in the Omission of words retained is marked by simple brackets [ ] in the text. Thus in Matt. vii 24 tous logous toutous is the primary reading, tous logous without toutous the secondary reading."

  The notation of W & H is unambiguous. Their choice for John 14:14 is the inclusion of me. Careful readers of the KIT (how many among JWs?) can understand that. Readers of the NWT (footnote included) can't.
• 

  possible-san

  Narkissos.
  
  Thank you for the quotation.

  The notation of W & H is unambiguous. Their choice for John 14:14 is the inclusion of me. Careful readers of the KIT (how many among JWs?) can understand that. Readers of the NWT (footnote included) can't.

  Although you are clever, I think that your explanation is sometimes not well.
  
  KIT omitted "single brackets" from the original Greek text (WH).
  So, even if Jehovah's Witnesses examine KIT, they do not know that there is "brackets" in the original Greek text (WH).
  
  Probably, I think that it is related to what Westcott and Hort called "Western non-interpolations."
  ("The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration" (3rd enlarged edition) by Bruce M. Metzger, p. 134.)

  That is, it is "D (Bezae Codices)" and "It (Old Latin Versions)." (which the footnote of "Reference Bible" describes.)

  possible
  http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/
• 

  cameo-d

  So Yadda...what did you ask for?

  let me know when you get it.

  Cameo-d
• 

  Earnest

  Some time ago I wrote to the Watchtower Society regarding the omission of "me" (in John 14:14) in the NWT although it is included in KIT. They replied as follows:

  We thank you for your letter in which you draw to our attention the translation of John 14:14 according to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures. You wonder why the word "me" of the literal word-for-word translation is omitted in the regular rendering of the New World Translation.

  The reason for the difference relates to the different Greek versions. Although the Westcott and Hort text, used as the basis for the Kingdom Interlinear, includes the word "me," there are other Greek versions which omit the word. Among these is the Greek text used as the basis of The Emphatic Diaglott, which reads: "If anything you may ask in the name of me, I will do." The Rotherham translation reads: "If anything you shall ask [me] in my name the same I will do." By enclosing the "me" in brackets, Rotherham explains that the word is supplied, suggesting that there is some disagreement as to whether or not it should actually appear in the Greek text. Our prayers, of course, ascend to Jehovah through Jesus Christ. He had already told his disciples in the preceding verse that "whatever it is that you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son." Since the ascension of Jesus to heaven and the outpouring of the holy spirit at Pentecost 33 C.E., holy spirit has been given to individuals on earth through Jesus Christ and, in turn, our prayers ascend to the Father through Jesus Christ. So, while our petitions are just to the Father, we are, in effect, asking Jesus Christ to help us with our spiritual and material needs. So whether a translator wishes to put in the extra "me" or not, the meaning is the same. - Please see also John 15:16; 16:23.

  A similar view is taken by many other translators. For example, the footnote, noting the authorities that read "me," is added to the New English Bible, Revised Standard Version, Today's English Version, the Revised Authorised and Weymouth. But they still leave it out of the main text as does the New World Translation. Others that leave "me" out without any explanation include Young's, The Twentieth Century New Testament, Fenton, Darby, Schonfield, The Jerusalem Bible, Barclay and the careful translation by C. B. Williams. Interestingly, although Alford included it in the textual apparatus of his Greek Testament, and showed that the authorities rejecting it were 'relatively late,' yet in the New Testament translation published in 1869, he did not consider it necessary to amend the Authorised Version rendering. So the vital question of context must be considered in addition to all other factors and in this case a large number of translations have taken that as decisive. In Moffatt's translation, which includes "me," this explanation is offered in the Moffatt New Testament Commentary on John, by G. H. C. MacGregor, page 308: "It seems redundant with 'in my name,' and moreover, the only prayer of which this gospel speaks is prayer to the Father in the name and spirit of Christ not prayer to Christ direct."

  We trust the above information proves helpful to you and explains why the New World Translation is justified in rendering John 14:14 as it does. We take this opportunity to send you our warm Christian love etc.
• 

  Narkissos

  W & H actually retained only nine so-called "Western non-interpolations" (in double brackets).

  http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/WestNonInterp.html

  http://www.bible-researcher.com/noninterp.html

  It may be interesting to compare the Society's private reply to Earnest with what is published for the general reader in the introduction of the NWT:

  The basic Greek text used for the preparation of the English text of the Christian Greek Scripture portion of the NewWorldTranslation was TheNewTestamentintheOriginalGreek, by Westcott and Hort (originally published in 1881). The Greek texts of Nestle, Bover, Merk and others were also considered. The Greek transliterations for the Christian Greek Scripture portion of the Bible, identified as "Gr.," are from the Westcott and Hort text as reproduced in TheKingdomInterlinearTranslationoftheGreekScriptures (1969). In the Hebrew Scriptures "Gr." refers to transliterations from the Greek Septuagint (LXX), by A. Rahlfs, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart, 1935. Other Greek sources have been indicated by their respective symbols.
• 

  possible-san

  W & H actually retained only nine so-called "Western non-interpolations" (in double brackets).

  hahaha

  Narkissos,
  I know that well.
  So, I wrote the page number of that book.

  I only expressed my view in the case of John 14:14. Therefore I said, "Probably, I think that it is related to ..."

  Even if I talk with you, I do not get enlightenment from you.The partial opinion is worthless even if knowledgeable.

  possible
  http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/
• 

  Earnest

  In addition to the witnesses already mentioned I should add that the fourth edition of the UBS Greek NT shows that P75 (early third century) also supports the inclusion of "me" but that most Latin Vulgate mss, as well as the Coptic, Ethiopic and Slavonic versions omit it.