Greg Stafford no longer a JW

by My Struggle 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  My Struggle

  This may be old news to some while most won't even know who he is.

  In case you don't know him, he was a JW that defended many of the JW doctrine publicly. He did this mainly in the form of two books, JW's Defended and Three Dissertations on the Teachings of JW's. He also was involved in two debates with Christian Apologists Robert Bowman and James While in regards to the Trinity. In these debates he takes a different approach than what the Borg teaches, he fully affirms Jesus as a god (but a lesser god than Jehovah), denies that Michael the Archangel is Christ, and is effectively a Henotheist. In christian apologetic circles he was well know as a JW apologist, infact THE JW apologist.

  The split seems to be over the blood issue, as he does not agree with the society. This is from his website elihubooks.com ...

  The wrongs I speak of are not just “minor” misinterpretations of certain prophecies that

  can work themselves out over time. What I am referring to are serious

  misrepresentations of Jah’s commands and of the teachings of Jesus Christ as found in

  the New Testament, commands and teachings that are fundamental to Christian faith.

  These errors are not just harmless preferences for social behavior, but they are often

  fatal positions that have no basis in Scripture and in some cases no basis even in

  science or in medicine, though they claim to be so based. When a group has some, even

  many things right but at the same time also has wrongs that it tolerates or refuses to

  correct in spite of evidence that is provided to it that reasonably shows certain teachings

  are wrong, and when those false teachings are hurting people’s faith, destroying

  families, and even causing loss of life, then Christians, Witnesses of Jah, have no

  business remaining part of that group unless it is to help correct such wrongs. And

  when it is clear that such wrongs are not or will not be corrected, then for the sake of

  Jah and Jesus Christ Christians must reject those who tolerate such things. That is why I

  am not a Trinitarian. That is why I reject Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. That is why I

  reject witchcraft and magic. That is why I do not worship Allah. That is why I will no

  longer associate myself with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It is why I am a

  Christian Witness of Jah.
• 

  My Struggle

  Do you know him/ go to his congergation?
• 

  BabaYaga

  Frankly, I see this as being very sad. There are few things sadder than a JW apologist who is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses... they are in self-imposed doomed limbo. How horrible for one to think that witnesses have "The Truth" and that oneself is going to be destroyed.

  I very much hope he can awaken and find peace.
• 

  Farkel

  bpnasaison,

  :He doesn't associate himself with the WTS but does he break association with his congregation?

  That's a distinction without a difference.

  :Having problems with the WTS may get you marked. But if the congregation takes issues with your problems with the WTS then that's when the judicial business in the congregation is set in motion.

  Rubbish. The WTS doesn't do the "marking", it is the Congregation. What planet are you from? Are you now, or have you even been a Jehovah's Witness? It was the WTS that had "issues" with Ray Franz, and it was the WTS that instructed his local Congregation to go "get" him. To think that the local Congregations can act in any sort of defiance with the WTS is lunacy. The CO is the local henchmen directly working for and appointed by the WTS. If the WTS tells him to "get" someone in a Congregation and the Elders don't do it, do you think the WTS is going to sit by impotent, frustrated and helpless and not do anything about it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  "If his elders leave him alone and the WTS doesn't put pressure on them to do something about it, then Greg can say and do pretty much whatever he likes.

  If Greg did in fact say he was no longer associated, then he is considered a DA. Period. It is inconceivable that elders would let him "run ahead" of "Jehovah" and publicly announce that the WTS is basically evil for their blood policy and then do nothing about it. And even if they did, the WTS would make sure that Greg was toast in WatchtowerLand.

  Farkel
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  My Struggle

  Yaga,

  I totally agree, this is very sad. I cannot imagine how Greg feels. Though self inflicted, his situation quite hopeless. I can only hope that one day he can wake up and fully leave the witnesses.
• 

  Farkel

  Baba,

  :I very much hope he can awaken and find peace.

  Greg is very smart, but he's also very young and still pretty full of himself. He was one of the very few Watchtower scholars, but unfortunately, NO ONE (especially scholars) can contradict WT leaders without serious consequences.

  As Greg matures, I'm sure he'll find his way and be just fine.

  Farkel
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  slimboyfat

  This happened some time ago. The blood issue was important, but there were other issues he had with the Watchtower Society as well such as the 1914 chronology. His basic differences with Jehovah's Witnesses are outlined in his book Three Dissertations of the Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses.
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  wary

  Hi all,

  I have heard this name mentioned around these parts beforeWould someone mind filling me in why its/ he is important.

  Did he write stuff for the society before his books?

  Thankyou,

  wary..{ New here }
• 

  yknot

  Yes this happened right before his last book was published....(2007)

  I am grateful for his departure and pray he finds an easy journey in recovery.....(perhaps joins us here soon too).

  He has started his own sect for the time being according to his website (http://www.elihubooks.com/) called the Christian Witnesses of Jah

  Not to totally hijack this thread but anyone hear if Rolf Furuli is doing okay.... It was rumored Ted wanted him out but he had too much of a following by the R&F to risk booting him over higher education.....

  Wary:::::: He was an JW apologist. He wrote JWs Defended (now in it's 3rd edition)
• 

  Piercingtheveil81

  Hello Everyone!,

  I had an opportunity to have lunch with Greg Stafford about a year ago to discuss some of the issues in the watchtower society. At that time I was pretty confused as to what step I should take as far as leaving the organization. From what he told me is that he technically wasn't disfellowshipped yet although he was having ongoing meetings with a local body of elders. I'm guessing that the elders probabely haven't taken such action because of fear that many will follow him out. I'm sure they know that many respect Greg as I still do, although I don't see things the same way now. I hope that things are going well for him and his family.

  By the way I'm new here! I just dissassociated myself a month ago after 11 year in the Borg. Maybe some day I tell you all about my story.

  Piercingtheveil81