Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?

by Spook 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Spook

  I have lived for the last 3 years with two Phd philosophers as roomates, both in the last year of their dissertation at reputable institutions (Notre Dame, Penn/UIC respectively). They are both moderate semi-christian theists after having been fundamentalists as youths. I have a sceince and engineering background and am a naturalist atheist former JW. We have had most of the arguments theists and atheists can have (disregarding biblical issues / literalism which they agree is crap)...

  1. Problem of evil...

  2. Metaphysics of various forms...

  3. Origin of the universe arguments...

  4. Fine tuning / statistical improbability arguments....

  and on and on.

  In my opinion, arguments about metaphysics are the most troublesome to the uninitiated. This is perhaps based on my background. I tend to come out on top in the mathematics and science arguments.

  To all the theists and atheists out there, what in your opinion is your / your opponents best argument?

  Thanks!

  (P.S. It's worth noting they both firmly believe in natural evolution with minimal divine involvement.)

  (P.P.S. No YEC derailers, please.)
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  OUTLAW

  If God does`nt exist..How come there are Pull Tabs on Beer Can`s?..

  ...OUTLAW
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  garybuss

  
  I have a theist friend who says that there MUST be a god because there are so many things he doesn't understand. That's the best argument FOR the existence of a god I have heard.
  
  
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  leavingwt

  "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
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  metatron

  I have puzzled since childhood as to why , if God exists, He doesn't talk to anyone. It seems to me that if God exists as a person, then speaking with us on a personal level would be his most obvious proof of existence. If otherwise, he expects us to obey him on the basis of an ancient book, written in dead languages, heavily interpreted, written by persons long dead and unknown to us and not even available to everyone. It makes no sense.

  On the other hand, while countless people obsess about creation/evolution - a process that none of us can ever know or witness - no one seems to ask what sustains the universe? Why do physical laws appear the same everywhere and from day to the next? Why should anything continue to exist? I asked this to an atheist and he said 'it just does'. That's a very surprising reply from someone wedded to scientific reductionism.

  metatron
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  stapler99

  Atheist here. For the sake of argument, suppose I was trying to prove God existed. First, we need to define God. God is widely seen as a human-like entity, yet one of infinite power and wisdom. Now ask yourself, what is not human-like? Everything which occurs in nature occurs in patterns which we can predict, and when we simulate it in our minds our minds develop as nature does. Is it such a stretch to say that these phenomena are actually thoughts in the mind of God? Nature is thus seen to be fundamentally human-like in nature. We only have an imperfect, weak and limited understanding of nature, which fact is expressed in the Christian tradition by stating that Man was made in the image of God, but is not God. We are finite beings, but God is infinite. We can describe infinity as being without bound, but can never understand it truly. God is within everyone, but is limited by nothing. God is not detached from the world, but neither is he bound by it. The idea of God is unlike any other idea expressed by language. This fact is aptly expressed in the Taoist tradition: "The Tao that can be spoken of is not the true Tao."

  Can I justify belief in a grey-bearded man who floats in space, taking an active interest in human affairs, shooting lightening out of his fingers when He gets angry? No, I can't say that I can.
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  Satanus

  Arguement from complexity, is the best one i can think of.

  S
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  Gladring

  I think I've expressed this before but anyway - as I made my way out of JW land, I absorbed loads of information on the god subject. I still love listening to debates/discussions between prominent atheists/theists. During that time, as I began to realise that belief in god was no longer defensible, I actually found a great sadness that even the best theologians and church leaders and laiety could not come up with a credible defense for belief in god.

  I think that one of the hardest beliefs to shake is when a person believes that they have personally felt God's presence or been touched by his noodly appendage.

  Also, I have heard Dawkins answer this question by saying that the argument from design is probably the most convincing, at least superficially.
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  beksbks

  Gladring, are you aware that the decline in Pirate population directly correlates to increase in Global Warming?
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  Gladring

  arrrrghhhhhh!!!!!!

  'tis why I sleeps with an eyepatch and bandana..........

  nice to see the somalians doing their bit for global warming

  grrr, and burrrrrrrrrr