by tsar_robles 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
"their answer was that the 'walk' to his father's home represents meeting attendance"..:..So the Prodical Son had to walk to his fathers house repeatedly for over 3 years?..Tell those Idiots to show you that in the Bible..LOL!!..God those people are stupid!!................Are you sure you want to go back that?....
...OUTLAW
lol, Outlaw. does that make me a sucker?
Yes, it is for my family's sake... either way I enjoyed everyone's comments and observations... and even though things went dramatic I feel I was tactful enough when I reasoned with them so as to not challenge them...
if things go well, my plans are to keep a low profile afterwards so we'll see :)
So Tsar your throwing out any personal integrity that you've acquired only to once again to embrace corruption,
What a loser
Well, they've hardly watched out for your return day after day and then come running down the road to greet you with joy as soon as they saw you have they?!
The prodigal son repented and then returned home as he was - broken and with absolutely nothing to offer his father except to be treated as a servant rather than a son - a request which the father refused point-blank - and this is what would put the absolute disclaimer to the JC giving you all that bull about 'works befitting of repentance' - the son's request to be a servant was even refused. The fact that he had come home was enough - no further proof of repentance was required.
Isn't God's UNDESERVED KINDNESS amazing?!
The elders sound more like the other prodigal son in that story - the one who didn't leave home physically, but whose heart was a long way away living in the filth of wrong attitudes.
Tsar_robles.."lol, Outlaw. does that make me a sucker?"........We have people on the board who have gone back for the same reasons as you..Family........Would I do it?..No..But,I`m not you............I really don`t care what people do..If getting your family back makes you happy,then do it...........It`s your life..I`m busy enough with my own..LOL!!
...OUTLAW
If you'd like to make them squirm just a little bit more and watch them bungle around for an answer, ask if it would be ok to get several of the friends together to have a party get-together to celebrate your return as a witness.(once the reinstatement announcement is made, of course) Since the elders have already determined that they represent the father, it should be them that initiates a party for your return.
tsar robles, I think those elders were being a bit cruel and demanding. Does it have to get to the point that the PO has to sign an attendance sheet just to keep them honest?
"Dear Brother PO,
I have this spreadsheet for you to initial in the approprite box to remind you, the elders, and myself I've attended this meeting. This is because when this issue was raised about my meeting attendance you denied it, the elders in the JC never heard of it, and it boilded down to a my word vs. their word situation. And naturally, I lost and I'm still disfellowshipped.
So, if you don't mind, please initial the box for today for our mutual record. If you like a copy for yourself, I can make another spreadsheet just for you so you can mark both. I appreciate your cooperation."
Sheesh! Talk about taking care of Christ's little lambs!
If they refuse, I suggest you attend a different congregation and say you want to be reinstated there. Just say that there is more love in their congregation than in the congregation you were disfellowshipped from. I'm sure they'll feel flattered and not give you as much trouble -- especially if it is true. And see what happens.
Please understand, the Watchtower Society, Governing Body, most elders are tougher than God himself, because they don't really care about you,,they just want your submission, for you to enslave yourself to them. They really don't love you and never will. They would rather emotionally, socially 'beat' you for probably another year. You must learn to love yourself, care about your self, start reading, take educational courses. Meet other people. Watching Discovery channel programs would be better for you than going to the meetings. Maybe try another church if you have the need. Don't get your wife to study with them. Spend your time with her, growing together, enjoying life as it is now.
Hello, I've posted here a few times over the years, have read many of the comments regularly, and have had opinions on different issues but didn't write. Then I read this and thought to myself 'enough is enough'. So, I'm responding with a sense of love, deep understanding, and a plea for the author of the post to consider this: spirituality leads to freedom. I'm going to respond from the position of someone who has been around the block of few times with the organization. I'm a third generation JW who is 37, works in the media business, is very skeptical by trade and nature, who was baptized at 17 and 20 years later had an elder ask if I made the right decision to get baptized to which I said no. Please bear with my thoughts, because I honestly feel pain for the poster and will give brief comments on their post. 1. I met with the JC and tried to reason with them on the prodigal son parable... how the father in this parable did not put his son through a waiting or probationary period, etc but rather embraced him ON THE SPOT... their answer was that the 'walk' to his father's home represents meeting attendance... in other words, the 'works' that befit repentance... any ideas??? Me: I haven't attended meetings regularly for over 10 years, I personally hit the wall, went to the "elders" and told them I hit the wall, to which they looked at me like I was an alien who was asking for an immigration card at a shoe store. My point is that in all of my dealings with the borg, I've never heard anyone make the correlation that actions in the parable were associated with specific behaviors. Walking home and meeting attendance...oh please, thats laughable. Works that befit repentance start inside, which will lead me to other points later. 2. I had to find a way to make meetings though; that I'd not die because of that... Me: I don't know what the posters condition is and don't want to assume but from the way you express yourself there seems to be a personality disorder or mental illness involved...yes I assumed...lol. Doctors do prescribe medicines for these types of conditions...a la NFL running back Ricky Williams who was prescribed medications because of a social disorder. Second, why exactly are you officially out of the borg...kicked out or wrote letter wanting out? As you know, there is a different process to get inside based on those circumstances. Lastly, saying you won't "die" is one of the best examples of Christian love I've heard off...rofl. 3. I was asked how long did I attend meetings in my last attempt and i said about 4 months... "well, that's about 48 meetings... so say you went to 30 meetings Me: Equating a person's spiritual value to numbers counting alone is one of the reasons I don't have regular dealings to do with the borg. The first century Christians, if you study their actions, in general didn't feel the need to be convinced to go to somebody's house to hide out and worship God. These people were compelled due to love for Jesus example, their understanding of the future, and appreciated the need to be with one another. How else could those early Christians go to areas of the world where they knew death was waiting but still followed through with their commitment? I've come to the conclusion that if a person wants to associate with an organized religious group but doesn't feel compelled, something is missing either in them or the bait that the religious group is selling is lacking. I think of the story of Philip baptizing the Ethiopian Eunuch basically sight unseen. The point here is that the Ethiopian had intense interest and was compelled to follow the path based on the teaching and there was no need to make him jump through man-made hoops. It would stand to reason that a person who is outside the scope of the organization but wants back in, should be given the same opportunity as a newbie because they are compelled for love of the organization (notice I didn't say they are compelled due to love for God and his Son) to suffer fools to get back in. 4. I kept getting scolded and questioned why I had not been proactive in spiritual things such as getting my wife a home bible study, and I said: 'well, she did want a bible study but that person she made arrangements with never came over"... them: "well, you should've followed up on that, blah, blah" Me: This is another example of authoritarian behavior that the borg has mastered. Because of that, I ask where is the spirituality meter that would help us gauge our growth. Field service time, meeting attendance, how many times you comment in a meeting, that is behavior more conducive to government leaders of which many got big attention in the 20th Century...Pol Pot, Hitler, should I go on. Those guys all utilized quantitative tools to gauge how diligent the masses were in supporting far fetched ideas. Again, the masses over time weren't compelled to follow the leader, they were forced, programmed, or done away with whenever they showed a degree of intellectual freedom. Second, how exactly did the Gestapo find out that you did not get the bible study for your ADULT wife? Even as head of the house, if you're out of the scope of organizational procedure, you're not even supposed to be involved in her theocratic education (unless she's worldly). Third, love and compassion would not make allegedly spiritual people demean the struggle of a person possibly dealing with a mental illness or personality disorder that is probably organic in nature. 5. after a mental struggle in which the options I weighted were to either carry on with my life and pretend to ignore everything my life i left behind, or grow resentment against everything or Me: Spirituality is the most beautiful aspect of life. Meditating, reading sacred scripture, praying, enjoying conversations with people of various religious traditions (rather or not I agree with them or not) makes a person whole in my opinion. When you are compelled to grow and understand your connection to every human and everything in the universe and that the active force that keeps things going, then happiness and humility follows. I tell my friends one of the best things that ever happened to me was to realize that - I am a human being and part of creation. Until you get free mentally for yourself, the struggle and mental circus you're living will continue to weigh you down.Don't pretend, realize what is real and happily follow it. 6. the last option was to do what I used to do in the past when confronted by wicked elders... which is follow JC's example of humility and wisdom... meaning do the thing that will not give them any room to find excuses or justifications to reject me... Me: Don't judge these people because then you are no better. Compassion, humility and love, are fruits of the spirit. All is good, Genesis tells us that. Mankind is just tweaked due to sin, or whatever reason that balance is missing on a day to day basis (sorry for ranting, but I don't like seeing people hurting and then be hurt). Showing humility and saying it are two different thing. You're caught up in a cycle that you won't win if you try to appeal to these elders sense of humanity (they have none). Follow Christ's example because in your heart it is right, not to protect yourself and do as you say, "not give them any room to find excuses or justifications to reject me." People who live a spiritual life aren't rejected, they transcend organizations, man-made doctrines. People will run to you because of joy and peace of in your soul if you're free. 7. so I decided that I will start attending both the hall that I attended recently (which is close to home) and their hall as well... if they ask me why, well, it's very simple... I meditated upon it and realized that my previous degree of deviation from the godly ways requires this much 'works' that befit repentance....Yes, it is for my family's sake Me: This is the action of a person who is a slave to their environment. You are a human being with rights to be happy and live in peace. God loves you, loved you before you were born. If you plug into him and his active force, you win, no matter what happens to your flesh. Release yourself from guilt. Lastly, your reason to get back in isn't based on sprit or truth, its because of flesh and you won't win in the end. I apologize if my thoughts seem preachy, but you're hurt and more than anything you need encouragement. Recently I was told by a sister with a son in prison (who is trying to stay alive and needs protection) is participating in a group bible study. The son gave an answer allegedly that didn't follow JW organizational thought and the brothers felt like it was their duty to tell this grown man's mother his mind and heart were not in the right place. I saw her crying in a store here in the city I live in. I talked to her, gave her a hug and listened. And I told her that love, prayer and the realization that life is difficult but it's still good and that we are human beings and God's creation is what she needs to remember and share with her son. Regardless of the infinite stupidty of men who follow a book written by other men who claim to know what God knows, you have a right to dignity, love, peace, compassion, and forgiveness. Attempt to find your spiritual course, weed out what you don't believe and hold on tight to what you do. Peace be upon you and your family
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their answer was that the 'walk' to his father's home represents meeting attendance... in other words, the 'works' that befit repentance.
Unquote
It would be wrong to compare the father in the parable with the elders......even the WT does not. Instead they compare congregational attitudes to that of the brother.......he is the one who held a grudge and thought it inappropriate for the father to welcome his son on the spot. Imagine what this mocking brother would do next.....as the spanish often say: I piss in your mothers milk.....
that is exaclty what the elders are doing.
Tsar, you must have a very strong motivation in spite of the adverse to continue your reinstatement. But don't drag your wife into the moor..........she deserves better.
Cheers
Borgia
