Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions

by Shepherd Book 50 Replies latest jw experiences

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  willyloman

  I think you are skating on thin ice with respect to any legal action, and your interpretation of recording someone's phone conversation without their express permission is shaky. My advice is to simply move on. If you are concerned about the process they outlined to you, consider this:

  You heard, second hand, that you were not disfellowshipped but somehow "removed." I have found over three decades as a dub that even long-time JWs do not fully grasp the organizational language and often misinterpret the standard buzz words. Based on the conversation you relayed to us, it's my opinion that your letter to the elders containing various 'restrictions' on any meeting with them was viewed as a letter of Disassociation. Therefore, they could announce that you were "no longer one of" at the next meeting and not even inform you of it, since they already had it in writing from you.

  That's how they'd testify in court and would be upheld. That how it would be reported in the news, if the newspaper even got that far.
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  leavingwt

  it is legal to record a phone conversation as long as at least one party knows and agrees to it

  Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as “one-party consent” statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (Nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.)

  Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. Be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as “two-party consent” laws. If there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping.

  http://www.rcfp.org/taping/
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  Shepherd Book

  Willy,

  You make some good points. But, with respect the recorded audio, I already have two phone conversations with this very same elder available on YouTube already. They've been up there for a year and a half and no one's ever told me I need to take them down (from a legal standpoint, that is). The elder's name is removed from the video, so in that way he's anonymized. He has never called me or emailed me to ask me to remove it. The law varies from state to state here in America, and I looked up the law in my homestate prior to posting the conversations.

  You're right that JWs misinterpret the language. Even I, after listening to my friend on the phone, thought that I had been DF'd. It was only after listening to it carefully, later, that I realized he had pussyfooted around the term "DF". My sister-in-law, too, swears I am DF'd, claiming that the elder told her so. I pointed out that the elder merely told her I was no longer a JW, which was not a secret in the first place. She, of course, hasn't written back.

  If you look at the letter, you'll see that I specifically said it is not a letter of disassociation, and that I saw no reason, legal or scriptural, to officially remove myself from association with the JWs (it's in the last paragraph). You're right, they might have still considered me DA'd, but they really had to wrestle with it, I'm sure.

  A lot of people here seem very concerned with me "moving on". Thanks so much for the support. I want to make it clear, however, that I wasn't looking for any help with the hope of hanging on to relationships, or as a means of having closure. I was jsut seeking out advice on how to make the JW elders/Watchtower Society squirm even more. Since it appears a lawsuit is out of the question, that's just fine! I'm not looking for any legal victory or monetary compensation. I was just wondering how to go about making known my story. After all, I was always taught to not let my light hide under a basket.
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  wha happened?

  Yea even though the elder could get into trouble within the congregation for devulging peronal information that was used in a comittee, any action on your part now is just a waste of your time. Talking to them any further just makes them relevent, which they really aren't. Just a few amoebas in a puddle ordering the other amoebas around.
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  Shepherd Book

  LeavingWT-

  You posted that as I was posting mine!

  Thanks for the link. As you can see from my bio, I do not live in an all-party consent state. I live in Minnesota, as does my friend, and all the elders of my former congregation. All phone conversations took place within state boundaries.
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  karter

  Can you apply to get your congrgation records? that would be a start.
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  Scully

  Well, with all the tongue-wagging and gossip originating from the Judicial Committee™ Elders™ and anyone willing to listen to their side of the story, it's a good bet that you weren't DF'd 'in absentia' for child molestation. (Trying to put a positive light on the gift they have given you...) We KNOW they keep their traps shut about that infraction, even when they are required by law to report it, and they'd doubtless keep you as a member in good standing if there was any merit to such an accusation. At least you aren't even remotely associated with JW child molesters and wife beaters.... again, trying to put a positive spin on things...

  They DFd Mr Scully in absentia too. Never bothered to inform him about it, in fact we found out about a year after the announcement was made. The elders disclosed information to out-of-town family members they didn't know about the so-called grounds they had against him. So much for confidentiality of the proceedings. I suppose it was kept confidential from us, but you'd think that Shepherds™ trying to save Lost Sheep™ would put a little more effort into performing their sacred duties. As it was they never bothered to contact us for EIGHT YEARS after we stopped going to brainwashing sessions Meetings™.
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  Awakened at Gilead

  Publicize via YouTube... I have had 18k views in 2 months....
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  leavingwt

  but you'd think that Shepherds™ trying to save Lost Sheep™ would put a little more effort into performing their sacred duties

  Fear prevents them from being real shepherds.

  "The number one priority of any organization is self-preservation."

  Bank on it.

  They could care less about a potential apostate. They are concerned about their own hide. Even if they do have a temporary concern for you, they will quickly realize that they must remain loyal to Jehovah, not their "friend". They can then dismiss any personal loyalties they may feel, be telling themselves that you've been overtaken by Satan, etc.

  After all, Jesus and His Executionary Forces will arrive to slit all non-JW throats VERY soon. Just around the corner since 1789!
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  Mickey mouse

  I have had 18k views in 2 months....

  That's amazing Lance! Congratulations, I'm sure your hard work is reaping results!